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Replacement Refrigerator

Yahoo Message Number: 84413
My Norcold has quit functioning and I am considering replacing it with a residential refrigerator.

Sorry to ask here but I can't get into the archives.
What model/size Samsung have you been using? Is there something special about Samsung? Do they fit through the front door? What mods are necessary to the woodwork? Any other tips/concerns?

Thanks

John Shankland

2007 Inspire 52028

Re: Replacement Refrigerator

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 84415
John,

This may answer some of your questions. And yes, it will fit through your door.
http://www.moenracing.com/samsung/
I'll be happy to answer any other questions you may have. I might add that we are extremely happy with this fridge!

Barney

07 Inspire 52059

Re: Replacement Refrigerator

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 84416
Mike did exactly the same thing as shown by Barney. We didn't remove the drawers either, and it is working out just fine. Fit through the door of in 06 Inspire too.

Good luck!
Mary

06 Inspire 51784

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John,

This may answer some of your questions. And yes, it will fit through your door.
http://www.moenracing.com/samsung/
I'll be happy to answer any other questions you may have. I might add that we are extremely happy with this fridge!

Barney

07 Inspire 52059

Replacement Refrigerator

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 84787
Did it!! I replaced my Norcold 1210 ref with a Samsung 197 Black. All went well, in and out the front door no problem. Happy with it so far keeps things much colder
Special thanks to Barney for the great picture journal of his installation. My installers referred to it frequently. And thanks to all the others that chimed in.
One issue was that for some reason my coach did not have inverter voltage in the refrigerator compartment. There was a duplex plug with two romex cables in it but on closer examination we found that one line was the input AC and the other went to the washer in the back. It was late in the day so we switched the refer wire lead in the circuit breaker box to the microwave breaker. So now potentially I could run the micro, refer, and washer simultaneously all on the same 20 amp breaker. While not thrilled with this it is not a very likely scenario.
Also I was surprised by the amount of outside air exposed by the installation as the refer is not sealed to the opening like the norcold was. I will install a screen on the outside panel to keep the bugs out. My question is how much does that effect heating and cooling in extreme weather? (hot and cold) If I permanently sealed the vent with Styrofoam would that cause a ventilation problem for the new refer?

Thanks again
John

2007 Inspire 52028

Re: Replacement Refrigerator

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 84789
In sub freezing weather that vent will provide a nice cool breeze. If you are a member of the polar bear club it is great.
I sealed the roof vent with plywood when I installed, but thought the rear access panel would help keep the refer cool. After a month in sub freezing nights it was time to seal it. Your idea of styrofoam made me think of the arrisol spray foam. I like your idea.

Bob Wexler
SOB

Re: Replacement Refrigerator

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 84790
John,

I had mine done at Infinity Coach in Sumner, Wa. They have done several and they sealed the back entry and the roof exhaust. They said that interior air will circulate and cool. Should be ventilation above and behind.

John

05 Inspire #51399

Re: Replacement Refrigerator

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 84794
John and others . . . do you know about the Class Action Suit against Norcold on these refrigerators? See last month's (December, pg. 16) Country Coach International eNews if you are a CCI member; or go to the Club website (http://www.countrycoachclub.com/) and look in the Newsletter archives.
We try to keep our members on top of this kind of critical information. There's lots of other good information in there as well.

Lee
--

Lee (leozbrowski@...) 2007 Country Coach Intrigue 12153
CAT C-13

Re: Replacement Refrigerator

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 84796
I called the attorney's office a couple of days ago and spoke to the paralegal (Heidi Cuppy) that is handling the Norcold CAL. She was very nice to speak with. She sent me PDFs which I need to upload and link to for everyone's benefit. Obviously they are looking for participants to build velocity in their case. I think it's a good idea to support their efforts. The attorney's office has a marketing department which I'm sure will direct its resources to getting the word out. A final resolution to this case could easily be 1 or more years out. But the process needs to get started before anything can happen. To that end, I think relevant information should be made easy to access. I'll try to help that process along.

There is also a Samsung CAL underway. As of last week the following models were involved: RF266AASH, RS263BBWP, RB1955SH, RS2533SW, RS267LASH, RS267TDRS, and RS2630WW. I'm told there may be additional models added to this list. I'm not sure what models people here have been using and I hope none are on the black list. It's all very discouraging what's happening to products these days.
I'm in the throws of bringing up a Linux system and dealing with a few other technical hassles at the moment. So I'm a bit behind with publishing stuff. Hope to catch up soon. Happy New Year and safe travels to one and all.

Re: Replacement Refrigerator

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 84797
Z-Man,

Does this mean that the 10 minute recall kit we had installed a few years ago in Yuma may not have solved the problem?

DBradley

04 Intrigue #11830

Re: Replacement Refrigerator

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 84799
I talked to Heidi a week ago.

  • Told her about this Yahoo Group.
  • Suggested she briefly write up something I could put in the Country Coach International eNews as well as the Diesel RV Club newsletter
  • Told her to contact FMCA for sure.
To date no responses or action I know of.

Lee

Re: Replacement Refrigerator

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 84800
Hey DBradley, I wouldn't say that. Maybe, maybe not. My hope would be a cash settlement of some amount for all relevant Norcold models to current/past owners, if you have the needed documentation requested. But I'm not holding my breath.

Lee

Re: Replacement Refrigerator

Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 84801
Brad - Believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see. If you have an OEM Norcold cooling unit plan on problems. Either replace it with a Pines RV Refrigeration cooling unit or go with a domestic refrigerator. Norcold is not to be trusted. That to include their band aid fixes. There is just too much at stake with your safety, possessions and those of your neighbors. Be very careful with this.

Re: Replacement Refrigerator

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 84802
Scott, your statement suggests you are well informed. What are the odds of a Norcold failure only and the also the odds of a fire?

Lee

Re: Replacement Refrigerator

Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 84803
I doubt if anyone, even Norcold has accurate numbers on the total number of Norcold failures, so the odds are difficult to compute.

The number of fires may be easier to compile.
Than there are those that have replaced there Norcold with domestic prior to failure. No one knows when or if those discarded Norcolds would have failed.

Bob Wexler

SOB with domestic refer

Re: Replacement Refrigerator

Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 84804
The Samsung we have been using is not on the recall list. They are model RF197ACxx. Mine has been working better than I could have asked for. No regrets.

Barney

07 Inspire 52059

Re: Replacement Refrigerator

Reply #15 –
Yahoo Message Number: 84805
I have some pictures of the Norcold that I removed. It had not failed but really got my attention when I saw the condition of the cooling unit. It was only 5 years old!

http://www.moenracing.com/samsung/

Barney

07 Inspire 52059

Re: Replacement Refrigerator

Reply #16 –
Yahoo Message Number: 84806
Thanks for the input. We keep the coach at Premier Storage in Yuma while we winter in San Felipe in our brick house. Does anyone know of a shop in Yuma that has done these replacement projects?

Re: Replacement Refrigerator

Reply #18 –
Yahoo Message Number: 84816
Lee - I simply pass along information that crosses my desk and or blog.
I chronicle those things I've had hands on experience with. As for statistics on Norcold failures, the attorney's office mentioned there are some 2000 fires that have occurred. One can go a lot of places with statistics like this. Take them with a grain of salt is my soft suggestion. As for the hard facts, we know Norcold's OEM GACUs are a potential fire hazard. My blog article presents a PDF that details fire events published by a third party. It's interesting. One of the PDFs (from the attorney's office) I'm due to upload also presents specifics on the causes of fires. It too is interesting. As for your specific one in XXX chances, I've not seen that one published yet. If one divides the total number of OEM cooling units made into 2000, then a small number would come back. But that isn't the point. Because with proper design, operation, safety devices and maintenance the 2000 number could be zero.
We need to focus on getting there which will take time.

Two solutions have surfaced. 1) Replace your GACU with one properly made. 2) Replace your refrigerator with a residential model. There are pros and cons to each choice. As for GACUs, off level operation will cause sodium chromate to crystallize which impedes flow which causes excessive heating. Heating and cooling cycles in the cartridge heater pockets can cause fractures in the boiler welds. Both are potential problems when leaks result. Off level operation is user controllable.
Heating/cooling isn't. Add to the mix an open propane flame (for some users) and you have a dangerous situation. All of this is known and the irresponsibility comes into play when the designers don't install adequate safety devices to protect people from conditions they know will happen out in the field. Money that should have been spent here wasn't.
Let me count the ways as an RV owner I get screwed!

I was speaking to a gentleman some months ago and he surfaced an interesting question. How does using a GACU part time influence it's life expectancy? He feels part time usage actually reduces life expectancy. Owing to moisture collecting in and around the boiler area.
When a GACU is operating such moisture is driven away. Moisture means water and water means rust. An interesting concept and plausible. I can't confirm this with any of my experiences, however.

I'm one guy, one bus make, one year, one model with five years of ownership logged so far. I do what I can to inform folks about things I learned the hard way. Perhaps it helps a few people. Information is our product here so I try to throw my hat into the arena of truth. Not as an expert but just like everyone else that's trying to own and operate their bus in the safest and most enjoyable ways.

Re: Replacement Refrigerator

Reply #19 –
Yahoo Message Number: 84823
We had a 'circulation fan' installed at Country Coach Factory Service in Junction City for our Norcold 1210 Gas Absorption fridge which was OEM on this 2008 coach. It is not clear to me whether this recall aimed at model 1200's applies to the 1210 as well, or whether perhaps the 1210 had corrected earlier issues with the 1200 (fingers crossed). This 'circulation fan' was an "enhancement" I had seen recommended elsewhere. Seems like this should go a long way toward keeping things at proper operating temperatures and hopefully reducing the risk of fire. Our Norcold works perfectly after 2.5 years of service and I have no interest whatsoever in installing an all electric fridge, so I would hope that either the 1210 is not an affected model or that the circulation fan will help matters substantially. Any input welcome

Joseph Burkle

2008 Country Coach Inspire 360 Founders Edition 43' quad slide tag axle 425 HP C9 pusher
http://www. Wind-seeker.com/

Re: Replacement Refrigerator

Reply #20 –
Yahoo Message Number: 84827
Joe - You'll want to keep a close eye on your absorber vessel and make sure it's no more than warm to the touch. I also feel strongly about using a sheet metal sleeve to contain the insulation around the boiler tubing. Norcold didn't do this. If you plan on using your propane, I'd go for the halon fire extinguisher system like these:
http://rvcoolingunit.com/Fire-Extinguishers-C243521.aspx?sid=298 The heater pocket welds are suspect and stress cracks can develop there.
This is difficult to inspect because no one at the factory ever thought about it. So that burden falls on you after the $3,800.00 you just spent for that frig.

As for affected models, if your GACU is the same one Norcold has been producing for the 1200 series frigs you should keep a close eye on it.
If a slow leak develops, cooling capacity is reduced. The control board responds with increasing power to the cartridge heaters to satisfy the thermostat. Over time this can lead to a runaway thermal condition.
Model numbers and enhancements are easy ploys to deflect attention away from the real issues. As always, the devil is in the details. Stay in touch with your equipment, understand the dangers and head off problems before they become serious.

I too remain with a GACU frig so I'm not biased against it. In fact I think it can be used safely. My experience(s) are chronicled here:
http://www.muniac.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=68#Post68 The class action lawsuit stuff is here:
http://www.muniac.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=182#Post182 The complaint PDF goes into some details about GACU failures. Take some time and read through all this so you can better understand what's going on. As for Norcold's model 1210, I'd be interested to explore what the differences are from the 1200 LRIM. My guess is it's business as usual for large companies taking full advantage of lax safety regulations.
Safe travels.

Re: Replacement Refrigerator

Reply #21 –
Yahoo Message Number: 84828
Scott, thanks for the link to the auto fire extinguisher. Didn't even know such a thing existed.

Jim

99' Magna #5629

Re: Replacement Refrigerator

Reply #22 –
Yahoo Message Number: 84833
Jim - U R welcome. You could call David Force to discuss the details of how this should be installed and what protection it offers. I don't have any hands on experience with this. It caught my eye as good insurance, however. Something folks should know about as they manage their RV refrigeration needs and options.

Re: Replacement Refrigerator

Reply #23 –
Yahoo Message Number: 84868
Joseph

It is interesting that you had a circulation fan installed in your coach.
Mine 2006 Allure has two fans behind the refrigerator to evacuate heat out the top vent. When the control board went out the fans would not come on and the refrigerator temperature was at about 50 degrees inside.

Dan 2006 Allure 31348

Re: Replacement Refrigerator

Reply #24 –
Yahoo Message Number: 84890
Hi Dan

Well this has certainly been an interesting thread, and thanks to Scott of muniac.com I have learned a great deal. I had read somewhere about the stock circ fans in Norcold not really doing the job very well, and it was recommended to install a set of aux fans with a thermostat, which I had done at Country Coach Factory Service in Junction City. That made a big difference right away in the cooling and in hot weather we were suddenly able to run it at a lower setting. Hence the system is not working as hard as more air is forced across the coils when it gets warm and the fridge is much more efficient.
But I have been concerned about all the class action lawsuit stuff and reports of fire hazard. So after some conversation with Scott outside of the forum and some links to his travails on his website, I went down to the coach today (in storage til departure for AZ next week) to see what things looked like back there, now that I knew a lot more what to look for and what the problem areas are. I am gratified to report that my cooling bay looks like it did on the showroom floor, very clean and no visible signs of any problems whatsoever. Whew! Heavy sigh of relief. Of course the coach has only been on the road a couple years and has under 20K miles on it, almost exclusively in RV parks and on 50amp service. Not that problems cannot develop on electric as well, but probably less of a concern.
I have posted a page on my website illustrating the whole area and what to look for. I ran it by Scott first to be sure I had everything straight and he said I did. It is here: http://www.wind-seeker.com/tech/norcold/
I put this page up to share with other CC'ers who might be worrying, perhaps unnecessarily, about their Norcold or wondering what to do about it.
In the first photo on the page above it shows the pristine condition of the compartment and shows the Norcold recall upgrade in place. The page also points to the SS-30 Halon Fire extinguisher recommended by Scott, and I have just ordered the automatic deploying unit with the 90 degree head which I will carefully mount in the compartment. There is plenty of room and I ran the where and how by David Force of RVCooling before ordering. This unit will ensure that if a leak DID develop and fire broke out, the extinguisher would kick in right away automatically and quell the fire. Of course nothing is 100% failsafe, but at this point I think chances of fire are probably less than chances of a road crash, so I can live with it.
But I am grateful to know what to watch for and will be making a few other upgrades this winter to both make the system even more bulletproof and easier to inspect for problems. As time goes on, however, and we are spending a lot of time in the coach and projecting with confidence several years ahead, I will probably spring for a replacement GACU once the bugs have been worked out and the design is improved a bit more. But for now I think I am fine :-)

Joseph Burkle

2008 Country Coach Inspire 360 Founders Edition 43' quad slide tag axle 425 HP C9 pusher http://www. Wind-seeker.com/