Skip to main content ↑ ↓
Topic: Allure Power (Read 2797 times) previous topic - next topic
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Allure Power

Yahoo Message Number: 86837
We have started our search for our next motorhome. We are looking at Allures 5-8 years old, or 05/06 Magnas/Affinitys. One concern I have with the Allures is the engine power. We have 350HP hauling 33,000 pound, Allures have 400-425 HP moving 47,000 pounds. Can some of you Allure owners give me some feedback on how they feel about their power-to-weight ratios

Re: Allure Power

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 86843
We have an '04 Allure 33' with a 370HP Cummins ISL.
No power issues at all. We tow a Chevy Colorado pickup. We have been up and down very steep grades with ease. GVWR is 33,200. Max with toad is 40,200.

Lonny & Diane Livingston
'04 Allure #31065

Re: Allure Power

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 86845
Hi Totenard,

It comes down to the power to weight ratio. You might check Damon Rapozo's CC Hisotry site, as I recall they include some weight information. Better yet, is to check the sticker for the specific coach you are considering, and get the specific weight.
When we were looking, we found that our 04 40' Allure, Tag, with ISL370 had a better power to weight ratio then an 05 40' Magna, Tag with the Big Cat. (The bigger block, bigger transmission, bigger cooling, bigger etc. required to support the power of the Big Cat, all added weight that erodes into the increase power the bigger engines provide. And of course, the Magna has many more 'goodies' then the Allure, also adding weight.
So doing the math to calculate the power to weight ratio, is the best way to compare.
All that being said, and all things else being equal on a coach - I'm a big fan on getting as much power as you can in a rig. I would have been very interested in our same coach with say the ISM or Big Cat in it.
Some models in some years, had Big Block options. Intrigue seemed to have a few years where the ISL was standard, with the Big Cat as an option.

Best of luck on your search,
Smitty
04 Allure Sold to a nice new owner! Now enjoying a 07 Magna Rembrandt 45' ISX600 #6775
"We're ONDROAD for THEJRNY!" (Toad and Coach license plates, say Hi if you see us!)

Re: Allure Power

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 86846
I have a 40 foot Allure with tag and a C-9 400 CAT and it is under powered.
Remember it is the same engine they put in non tag 40 footers.

Dan 2006 Allure 31348

Re: Allure Power

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 86849
Not sure whom I'm writing to since I don't have a name. That said, here goes.....

Our bus is adequately powered and drives/handles reasonably well for a large vehicle. It has a tag axle which I think all vehicles of that size and weight should have. We tow a van that weighs about 8K pounds. I'd say we're in and around 20 tons when it all gets loaded and hooked up.
We can maintain 60 MPH on the interstate roads in most places. The exceptions are steep hills, corners and passes. The bus doesn't corner well either. Not from a handling perspective but from a cargo shifting perspective. I find myself taking about 5 MPH off the signs indicating reduced speeds in the curves. Thus 35 MPH in a curve posted at 40 MPH works well. Sometimes this pisses off other drivers but that's life in the not so fast lane.

People are power happy and thus engines, power tools, batteries and vacuum cleaners (to name a few products) play the marketing game. So 400-425 HP doesn't really mean a whole lot. Especially if it comes from the RV industry and not an independent rating service. On our bus, the engine is good for about 1200 Ft/Lbs of torque as measured by the Silverleaf. If the data bus sensor is accurate, the engine (Cummins ISL 400) does indeed develop that torque. My theory is CC some years back developed a basic chassis, transmission and engine combination. As time went on buses got bigger, longer and heavier without a proportional increase in the drive train. It's a lot cheaper to change the decals too. Although our drive train can deliver 1200 Ft/Lbs of torque you wouldn't be well advised pushing it that hard for extended periods of time. I mean you can but not without consequences. And what rating does the transmission have? Do we have any reliable data on torque, wear and heating?

We use 800 Ft/Lbs of torque as an average continuous duty guideline or about 66% of rated engine capacity. What does this mean during travel? For one thing it dictates how fast you'll go up hills. Torque also causes heat to build up in the transmission. More torque means more heat. Excessive heat is the enemy of all lubricated mechanical equipment so it should be kept within reasonable limits. Excessive heat doesn't help your engine compartment either. It's for this reason we don't push the drive train to its advertised limits (what the sticker says).
Occasionally is fine but I don't recommend it for an entire trip. Remove yourself from the need for speed and think about torque, how best to use it and don't beat the crap out of your mechanical moving parts with too much of it. Take climbing on route 80E from Salt Lake City, Ut up over Parleys Summit. A somewhat brutal climb whose roadside shoulders routinely become the graveyard of injured motor freight. We do that climb and maintain about 1500-1800 RPM and 800-900 Ft/Lbs of torque. The appropriate transmission gear is selected to match the parameters I just mentioned. Usually 2nd or 3rd works. As for road speed, that comes in between 5-10 MPH on the steeps. The climb inclination isn't linear. It is what it is and we can climb reasonable well less excessive engine/transmission temperatures at 800 Ft/Lbs. To ease up on the drive train I'll make an optional cool down stop several miles short of the summit (near 8K feet elevation). So the bus will do 80 MPH (not recommended) and/or 5 MPH depending on road conditions. It's your call how you want to drive it.

On interstate travel we take the total number of miles driven and divide into that our moving time in hours. Our average is in and around 60 MPH.
Slow down when you should. Don't abuse your drive train. Make up time when you safely can. Understand what the posted speeds mean too. For example, I15 has an 80 MPH section well outside (north) of St. George, UT. Our bus will go that fast. But it just isn't smart so do 60 or 65 instead. We're not in a hurry and our goal is always to arrive less any mechanicals and/or accidents. (Jeannie's turn behind the wheel: http://muniac.smugmug.com/Travel/Montrose-CO-to-St-George-UT/i-djSwdFg/0/M/img_3191-M.jpg ) So our Allure is road worthy providing you don't drive it like an idiot. As for other CC models, I can't say what the driving experience is. I'm one bus, one model, one model year, 5 elapse years and 25k miles. Safe travels.

Re: Allure Power

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 86851
My 06 allure weighs in at 36,000 lbs. and I tow a 5600 lb. Chev Tahoe. I do not have a problem with the Cummins 400 HP ISL power. I climb all the mountains here in the west (I80, I40 and I5) at about 45 to 50 mph.
I could go faster, I guess, but I'm staying up with the big rigs and not impeding traffic. I figure we are all lined up in the slow lane and if I try to pass, then I'm impeding traffic and creating a problem.

Re: Allure Power

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 86857
My Allure has a GVWR of 45000 pounds and then you have to add the tow vehicle to that number. Mine understanding is that the 400 and 425 are comparable the newer motors have the higher rating to compensate for the new emission requirements. I think mine is a dog climbing steep western mountains. I do have the tag and the non tag 40 footers blow by me when climbing. As stated elsewhere you do not want to try and pass when you have limited excess power so I often end up in line following the slowest trucker in the slow lane.

Dan 2006 Allure 31348

Re: Allure Power

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 86859
The main issue isn't the tag, its the fact you have a taller steele framed coach, solid wood cabinets, and most likely all tile floors, an IFS front end, metal bay doors, and a steele reinforced floor. etc. If you were driving an Allegro with aluminum walls and roof, wood un reinforced floors, plastic bay doors, with veneered cabinets with stick frames and carpet you'd be 5000 to 7,000 lbs lighter, wouldn't need the heavy tire and wheels the heavier transmission, larger radiators, and your engine would be adequate, etc. It was your choice. If you want a hot rod buy your self a 40 ft Magna with a Cummins 650, or Older 36 Foretravel with a 500 ISM. Or a 32 or 33 ft Allure with an ISC 370. I will admit a 45 Allure is under powered and that's why the last ones had 500 ISM in them. I had the choice of choosing a 400 ISL or a 505 C-12. I choose the 400 after having driven one. Remember half the fun is getting there; meaning slow down, stop, and smell the roses on the way. TWI 2004 42" Intrigue 11731

Re: Allure Power

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 86860
I have a2005 CC 40 foot Inspire 330 non tag model with a 400 Cat and it has all power needed. Pulls the Grapevine at 60 MPH with power to spare. I also pull a 22 foot Stacker aluminum trailer with two sandrails which adds another 11.000 lbs with no issues.

right
BREWER REFRIGERATION Heating and Air Conditioning, Inc. SCL 608848

937 Golden Gate Terrace
Grass Valley, CA 95945-5938
530-272-6351 Phone
530-477-2719 Fax

www.brewerhvac.com

Re: Allure Power

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 86862
"Enough Power" is a VERY subjective term. It really depends on the individual definition. There are a lot of OTRs (Over The Road Trucks) that go from coast to coast at 80,000 lbs on 400 hp. That being said it now depends on what speed you feel you must have or can live with. But in the end it comes to the following line, largely decided by available funds.

Speed Costs Money, How Many Dollars of Fast Do You Want?

Mikee

Re: Allure Power

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 86864
Mikee

How many gears in those OTR truck transmissions? Those are the same trucks I am in line with going up the grapevine at 15-20 mph. There remains the fact that why would CC put the same engine and transmission in 54,000 GCWR vehicle and a 40 foot non tag Inspire?

Dan 2006 Allure 31348 (nice coach on flat ground)

Re: Allure Power

Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 86869
Dan,

They did that for price point reasons. In any given year if you want more power you move up the product line. Like all manufacturers CC offered the big, heavy coach on a great chassis with a smaller motor. They also offered big, heavy coaches on great chassis with bigger motors. They're called Intrigue, Magna and Affinity.

George in Birmingham
'03 Magna 6298
George in Birmingham
2003 Magna 6298

Re: Allure Power

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 86870
Most trucks have 10 to 13 speeds I know I drove for several years. They used to run larger HP but due to high fuel costs most are running Cummins or Cats now. Engines are set for higher HP due to the fact that the transmissions and rear ends are MUCH larger and manual transmissions that don't generate as much heat as the automatics. Also have larger radiators for better cooling.

right
BREWER REFRIGERATION Heating and Air Conditioning, Inc. SCL 608848

937 Golden Gate Terrace
Grass Valley, CA 95945-5938
530-272-6351 Phone
530-477-2719 Fax

www.brewerhvac.com

Re: Allure Power

Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 86873
Just curious from your trucking experience, what brand engines did they use before switching to the little Cummins and Cats? Gerry

2007 Allure 31447

Re: Allure Power

Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 86882
The transmissions vary, the older trucks from 9 t 15 is typical when a manual is used. The newer trucks are either automatic or auto shift. With 6 to 10 usually. The final ratio in the highest gear is the same in both ours and trucks.
Yes those are the trucks, but they are considered acceptable performance across a wide variety of conditions. The best balance between cost, fuel consumption and speed.

Mikee

Re: Allure Power

Reply #15 –
Yahoo Message Number: 86884
At first it was Cummins and the good ole Detroit 671s 871s, then came cat. Later Mercedes, Volvo, and one or two others got into the game. Then the HP race started, then the fuel mileage race, the current race is total vehicle fuel efficiency.

Mikee

Re: Allure Power

Reply #16 –
Yahoo Message Number: 86892
I'm not sure what coach you have or are moving up from but.....
We started with a gas powered thing then moved to a 96 intrigue with a 300 Cummins. The Intrigue weighed about 27k and the Cummins was sufficient (much better than the gas one). Then we traded up to a 99 Magna. It weighed about 32k loaded and had a 385 Cat in it. It had a very good weight to power ratio. At one point while we while we owned the Magna we drove a 06 or 07 Allure and figured out the Magna was a virtual hotrod as compared to the Allure. Soooooo.....when we started looking for our next coach we knew that we were spoiled to the power we had in the Magna and that determined the direction we needed to look. We drove a 05 Intrigue with a Cat (maybe a 425) and it was ok but it wasn't the Magna.
Now, when this thread first started I hadn't drove our new to us Affinity (cause I couldn't get hubby out of the seat long enough) on many hills but today we were heading home when our plans changed. We are now headed east toward Charlotte, NC on I-40 and while the hills we are on are nothing as compared to other places they are long. I set the cruise on this 525 Cat and it just keeps on pulling. We havent weighed it but the GVW is over 50k. No problems with power here!
And as a side note...few people warned of concerns with the Affinity windows and while we have some adjusting to do on them we really like the view. I would not hesitate to recommend the 06 Affinity to anyone as we are very pleased with ours.

Good luck with your search.

Tammy Toalson
Affinity 6611

Re: Allure Power

Reply #17 –
Yahoo Message Number: 86896
Quote from: Tammy"
I'm not sure what coach you have or are moving up from but.....
We started with a gas powered thing then moved to a 96 intrigue with a 300 Cummins. The Intrigue weighed about 27k and the Cummins was sufficient (much better than the gas one). Then we traded up to a 99 Magna. It weighed about 32k loaded and had a 385 Cat in it. It had a very good weight to power ratio. At one point while we while we owned the Magna we drove a 06 or 07 Allure and figured out the Magna was a virtual hotrod as compared to the Allure. Soooooo.....when we started looking for our next coach we knew that we were spoiled to the power we had in the Magna and that determined the direction we needed to look. We drove a 05 Intrigue with a Cat (maybe a 425) and it was ok but it wasn't the Magna.
Now, when this thread first started I hadn't drove our new to us Affinity (cause I couldn't get hubby out of the seat long enough) on many hills but today we were heading home when our plans changed. We are now headed east toward Charlotte, NC on I-40 and while the hills we are on are nothing as compared to other places they are long. I set the cruise on this 525 Cat and it just keeps on pulling. We havent weighed it but the GVW is over 50k. No problems with power here! > Hi Tammy, Jackson here in Okla. I have been referring to your Affinity as our sister coach since ours was built on same line just 3 units behind #6614. What length Is your Affinity?
Our is a 40' Sonoma and weighs in at 45580 fueled and loaded. I will 2nd your notion of plenty of power out of the 525 Cat. Our 06 came out of the Charlotte area and I too traveled the i40 hills without a moan. I wish you good luck with few issues to deal with if there is such a thing. Besides the fogged windows our 25k mile coach is like new, been kept inside and never lived in. We have experienced Road Wandering that we have addressed on this forum and is one we are still working on. Keep in touch.
OJinOK

06 Affinity #6614

Re: Allure Power

Reply #18 –
Yahoo Message Number: 86921
We presently have a 95 Affinity with a 3176 engine. With 350 hp and 1350 Lb-ft of torque we have pretty good power. When we test drove an 05 Allure at CC lat year, it drove nice, but seemed underpowered compared to ours, although we drove mostly on flat ground around Junction City. We really like the floorplan of the Siskiyou Summit, but I hate to step down in power from our present coach. The 05/06 Magnas and Affinitys are high on our list. Not sure we want to put up with a 650 hp fuel guzzler!

Per

5259 Affinity

Re: Allure Power

Reply #19 –
Yahoo Message Number: 86926
Your comment that you may not want to put up with a 650HP guzzler may open another response thread.
I've always heard, never saw documentation for substantiation, that diesel engines are the most effective (efficient) at converting fuel to requested power. The suggestion has been that an engine with potential to deliver 500 HP or X FTlbs but that is only being asked to provide say, 300 HP, will use only slightly more fuel than an engine that is maxed out at 300 HP.
I know it isn't necessarily good to let a diesel loaf or idle but it seems an engine that has substantial reserve power should last longer than one that is consistently challenged to it's max.

Gerry Brown

2007 Allure 31447

Re: Allure Power

Reply #20 –
Yahoo Message Number: 86929
I really don't consider engine longevity is an issue with any of our Country Coaches! We have about 155,000 miles on our 3176 Cat, and worrying about whether the engine is going to last is nowhere on my radar! While it is true that fuel use of a bigger engine will not be that much more than a smaller engine on flat ground, it will drastically increase when you use the added power, such as going uphill. Add the increased weight, and the stories you hear about getting 5.5 MPG on the big engine make sense. I was told by a RV salesman (Yeah, I know about salesmen!) that he got 9 MPG on a 650 HP Affinity from Salt Lake to Tucson. I beleive we would be OK with the 525 hp in the Intrigues, Magnas and Affinitys. Still not convinced that the 400-425hp would not feel like a slug compared to our coach.

Per

Affinity 5259

Re: Allure Power

Reply #21 –
Yahoo Message Number: 86930
On number of occasions I have followed 05 and 06 Magnas and Affinities up over the mountains on I5 into and out of Oregon. I can keep up with the 45 ft units pulling heavy tows with a little planning to gain some speed on the descents to carry over to the grade, but the later units with the 600 horse+ Cats and Cummins just leave me in the dust. Now that I have dropped 1500 lbs of tow car and have lightened the coach by 5 or 600 lbs , my milage has gone up a bit and performance on grades has increased 3 to 4 mph, which will probably make an equal for the 525. But the 600 horse units with 2000 ft lbs of torque compared to my 1250 is a poor second. The first time I had my charge air cooler replaced and an up date on the ECM when checked on CC dyno I was pushing 350 horses on the ground in 4th gear at 2050 rpm. Which works out to about 430 hp with tranny loss and drive train factored in. Pretty good for a 400 ISL. Now that I have had my second charge air cooler replacement installed and the coach has broken in; she seems to preform better than ever with 85,000 + miles on the odometer. TWI 2004 intrigue 11731

Re: Allure Power

Reply #22 –
Yahoo Message Number: 86934
Hey Per, Tucson is 2,000 feet lower elevation. Add a tail wind and a soft shoe . . . maybe. I've had more than one 9 MPG day with my 525 C-13 CAT on my Intrigue, but average is the true measure, 7.5 for me over 40,000 miles.

Lee
--

Lee (leozbrowski@...) 2007 Country Coach Intrigue 12153
CAT C-13

Re: Allure Power

Reply #23 –
Yahoo Message Number: 86955
I have a 400 hp 33 ft Allure hauling 33,000 lbs. and it drives like a sports car. Goes over mountains with one downshift and hardly slowing down.

George Harper
04 Allure
31093

Re: Allure Power

Reply #24 –
Yahoo Message Number: 86956
I too agree with George! I am a 33' Allure with a 400 Cummins. No power issues at all! Very nice. Love the CC 33'. Just right for us!! Good Luck! Scott Jones, 2004 33' Allure, Seaside, # 31094