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PTO - Lesson learned

Yahoo Message Number: 87952
This is a tale of how what appeared to be a "simple" PTO issue turned into a $2,300+ oops...$2300 + my "free" labor!

I bought my 2006 CC Allure knowing full well that the wet PTO kit had not been installed. Prior to closing the deal I inspected it myself and saw that it did not have the wet kit installed, but did not actually pull the pump to inspect the splines on the gear. The coach has 30,000 miles on it.

Well I did just that this last weekend and was shocked to find the splines in very poor condition. John Davis confirmed my fears and quoted me on a new pump and wet kit - ~$2300!

Here is a link to a closeup photo. 2006 Allure PTO wear You can see they are worn to almost a sharp point. They were originally flat on the tops. The original thickness can be seen at the base of the shaft. John said that the wear accelerates once the hard surfacing has worn away. John said he wouldn't drive this coach across the street in this condition, I told him I "only" drove it from Tampa to Utah. :)
I negotiated the purchase price down because of the PTO, but not enough to cover a new pump. The seller wasn't even aware of the issue, so I don't blame him.
Lesson learned. Hopefully this info will help someone else.

RV still having fun? Yes!!!
Dan

2006 CC Allure with tag
#31344

Re: PTO - Lesson learned

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 87954
Dan, I do not mean to rub salt in a wound, but perhaps your experience can be a learning moment for the other thousands on this site. I apologize to you for that.
A number of other contributors and I wrote extensively about the very case you described called PTO 101, which has been in the files section of this Yahoo Group for years. You can look it up.

The point is others need to ask about these kind of documented problems and always heed the warning such as are in the article I've referenced.

Lee Z

Re: PTO - Lesson learned

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 87956
No worries..."tis but a flesh wound!" :-)
I actually did read your PTO 101 as part of my research. It does a great job of outlining the issue...thanks for the effort! My problem was not doing enough due diligence prior to the purchase (actually pulling it to inspect). The fact that there are still many coaches with the old style PTO is concerning.
The real concern is the longer you wait to put in the wet PTO kit, the higher the chance that you will also need to replace the hydraulic pump (due to the spline being worn). This turns a ~$500 repair (~$900 with labor) into a ~$2500 repair.

Thanks for the heads up!
Dan

2006 CC Allure
#31344

Re: PTO - Lesson learned

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 87960
Marvin,

I am looking at the possible purchase of an 08 Intrigue and the list of updates and repairs stated that the PTO Wet Kit was insalled at about 19,000 miles. So it seems it was still needed.

I had it done to my current 05 Inspire in 07 I believe.

John

05 Inspire #51399
10 Ford Escape

Re: PTO - Lesson learned

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 87961
Well I thought I would chime in here and say How much it hurt to tell Dan how bad the splines looked to me.
The whole down side to this issue is the fact that the pumps have been so hard to get and expensive as all get up.
Sauer Danfoss sold the 5 pump divisions off to 4 different companies. It has taken us the last four years to get these companies to agree to get these pumps to us faster than the 15-16 weeks we were waiting. When JDRV started having custom pumps built here on the west coast to replace the S-D pumps, it sparked some kind of fire. The prices came down (although still high) and we now can have the OEM Sauer Danfoss pumps built and in my hands in some cases 4 -6 days and on rare occasions 8-10 business days. This is all with the exception of the CPB- 1158 which is the recall coach pump. We normally have this pump in 10 days but yesterdays order was moved to 5 weeks due to an imperfection in the rear housing for these pumps. The S-D pumps range from $834.00 up to as much as $2400.00 And Eaton pumps range from $1800.00 up to $2800.00 So with all said and done It is a GREAT!! idea to at a minimum have the inspection performed, But an even better idea to have the kit installed as soon as possible.
As always if anyone has any questions please do not hesitate to call me I am more than happy to help.
Thanks and Happy Trails
JD

Thank you
John Davis
JDRV INC.

Your RV / Marine

parts and service professionals

JOHN DAVIS RV SERVICES INC. jd@... 541-306-6473 541-693-3015

Authorized parts and service for HWH, Roadmaster, Zip Dee, Dometic, Norcold Kingdome/King controls, NOTICE: This message is ONLY for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed, and it may contain information that is privileged or confidential. Do not copy or distribute this communication or disseminate its information unless you have been granted specific written authority to do so by the sender. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by telephone and delete the email from your computer system. Thank you.





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Re: PTO - Lesson learned

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 87982
I just wanted to chime in here about wet spline PTOs. I have had this whine from the engine compartment and my C9 Caterpillar since I bought the coach last year. Had it in to Cat where they ran all the tests and they said it was not from any of their components. So I took it in to Premier RV Service in Junction City and Gary and a tech listened to it and said they would find out where the problem lay. Turns out it was from the dry spline PTO which is not really supposed to be a problem on the C9, but anyhow he said a wet spline kit would be better and eliminate the noise and possibly failure. He was successful in getting my aftermarket extended warranty company Easycare to pay for the entire cost of replacement less my deductible. I am also having them service a few other items whiel there. Three cheers for everyone at Premier... I am very pleased with their service and would recommend them highly to anyone having their Country Coach serviced in Junction City.

Joseph Burkle

2008 Country Coach Inspire 360 Founders Edition 43' quad slide tag axle 425 HP C9 pusher http://www. Wind-seeker.com/

Re: PTO - Lesson learned

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 87985
Joseph

I have never seen the issue identified as a CAT or Cummings issue. Country Coach used a system that is not intended for continuous duty. The system was used on fire and garbage trucks where there is less demand placed on the system. The spline is intended to be greased and as number of people have lived with the dry system thru periodic maintenance. I changed mine out because I am lazy and forgetful.

Dan 2006 Allure 31348 C-9

PTO - Lesson learned

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 87953
William Smith 2006 allur 430 . What is this well pump you are talking about . Do I have one on my RV ? What does it do ? What what does the PTO do ?

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE Smartphone

Re: PTO - Lesson learned

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 87955
William, read the article I just referenced. There is a very good chance you have a dry PTO too.

Lee Z

Re: PTO - Lesson learned

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 87957
This is referring to the PTO (Power take off) that comes off the transmission and drives a hydraulic pump that usually powers the side radiator fan and the power steering. Most Class A's have some type of PTO. This has been discussed quite a bit in the forums.

JDRV1's site is a great resource for this. http://www.jdrv1.com/id19.html
John said there are still many, many coaches that still have the dry PTO. When it fails it will leave you stranded (loss of power steering and engine cooling) so it is something everyone should be aware of and get fixed if you have the old style.

Dan

2006 CC Allure with tag
#31344