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fuel additive

Yahoo Message Number: 88019
I have talked to two RV'ers lately that said they use an additive with every fillup to protect their engine. They are saying that the new fuel does not have the proper ingredients for the lifters and other mechanical parts. Does anyone have any yeas or nays on the subject. I am leaning on doing it, but need some more imput.
Thanks

Tom

2005 Inspire 51177

Re: fuel additive

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 88020
Tom,

I have been using Power Service since 3/2008. There are 2 types. I only used the one in the grey carton. I never go anyplace where I need the anti-gel so the grey container works for me. I buy mine at Wal-Mart in the auto section. Runs about $17.00 per 250 gallons of treatment. I can't say I notice any change in engine, however, I did gain about 1/2 MPG since stating.

Jock Vargo

2005 Inspire
51428

Re: fuel additive

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 88021
In a reply I sent a few days ago I said that to "protect the engine" from the new "low sulfur" fuel you should "bump up" your idle to 800 RPMs when starting a cold engine. Do not let it idle at 400 RPMs which is what it'll do if you don't adjust it. Let it warm up for 15 minutes before putting into gear.
I've been told the new fuel, with less additives, will do damage to the valves, lifters and rings. Can't tell you why but I'm of the "better safe than sorry" school of thought.


Kevin Daly 01 Magna 5982

Re: fuel additive

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 88023
Jock,

When you add the Power Service additive to your fuel, how much do you add at fill-up? And do you think it is worth the dollars to install the SilverLeaf VMS 330?

Michael

05 Inspire 51381

**************************************** Note: Do Not Use @...
email: met6195@...

Michael Title

Halfmoon Bay, BC, Canada
CDN Cell: 604.741.3328

San Miguel De Allende, GTO Mexico MEX Cell: [52] 415.100.1543

Re: fuel additive

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 88024
I believe everyone owning a diesel RV should use a fuel treatment.
Now which one is the million dollar question. For me personally, most seem like snake oil, and unless I really believe the person selling it or (worse yet) believe the label that some marketing person made up for the manufacture or distributor, I need to really understand what I'm putting in & why.
First is Demulsifier, which removes water from the fuel, next is a lubricant, which lubricates the fuel system, combustion catalyst which contains a dispersant to stabilize fuel in storage, polymerization retardant, which keeps diesel fuel pumpable & combustible. Lastly for me is handling & storage - how much do I need to carry & store in the coach.
For me I was introduced to a product over 8 years ago from our Fleetguard rep, made by ILFC (International Lubrication & Fuel Consultants) "Ten 35"?. http://www.ilfcinc.com/Product/1035.asp
What & Why I like this product is because it's easy to deal with, 1 ounce per 79 gallons, 1 bottle equals 1264 gallons of fuel and cost $3.44 per treatment. It really has nothing to do about the cost for me, more so on what it does and how is it to deal with it. Did I mention that this product can be added at any time, so if you run out or forget to add, it doesn't have to be added while fueling for proper mix. Also if you overdose, it's only costing you money, doesn't hurt the fuel. Sometimes, only after having a lab analyze the fuel with a vehicle having fuel issues, we've had to double dose and/or even more of a dosage, per their recommendation to repair the fuel.

Jim Lewis

Infinity Coach

PS - Also if you have a diesel fired hydronic system - I strongly recommend fuel treatment.

From:Jock Vargo Sent: Friday, May 24, 2013 9:47 AM To:Country-Coach-Owners@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Country-Coach-Owners] fuel additive
Tom,

I have been using Power Service since 3/2008. There are 2 types. I only used the one in the grey carton. I never go anyplace where I need the anti-gel so the grey container works for me. I buy mine at Wal-Mart in the auto section. Runs about $17.00 per 250 gallons of treatment. I can't say I notice any change in engine, however, I did gain about 1/2 MPG since stating.

Jock Vargo

2005 Inspire
51428

Re: fuel additive

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 88025
I've been using Power Service in the grey bottle since 2004. I'vebeen told truckers swear by it.

Larry, 03 36' Allure, 30856

Re: fuel additive

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 88026
You will find whatever a person is using, is the right additive for you to use!

The right additive for you to use ( - :)! - ), is XPD.
I agree with the comment that especially for those with an era engine designed for pre ULSD, using and additive is a no brainer.
Many, many good products, probably all do a good job. I carry a gallon of the XPD with me as I travel, and add about 8 0z a fill up (usually top off at 1/2 tank).
It is the lubrication I'm mostly after. Though XPD also has a bit of Cetaine (SP?). I do also have a few bottles of Amsoil Cetaine, and will add that to a tank if I know I'll be in mountain driving conditions.
Then, I also carry a bottle or two to help out if I pick up a bad tank of fuel. (Sorry, blanking out on the name, but ones that were recommended by both CC board members and also on IRV2 Cummins Forum too.

Pick your medicine, then take it:)!

Best to all,
Smitty
04 Allure Sold to a nice new owner! Now enjoying a 07 Magna Rembrandt 45' ISX600 #6775
"We're ONDROAD for THEJRNY!" (Toad and Coach license plates, say Hi if you see us!)

Re: fuel additive

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 88027
Jim,

Where does one need to go to purchase the " ten 35"? Would it be available at NAPA or does one need to buy it thru Cummins/Fleetguard?

Curious? I am interested in giving it a try.

Bill Brown

CAT C-9, 400 HP
Hydro Hot

Re: fuel additive

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 88028
Tom,

I keep thinking that if there was a need for a fuel additive there would be some scientific evidence that it is needed. And, there would be some scientific evidence showing the benefits of the available products. I would expect that, at the least, one of the engine builders would recommend that you need something.
In the absence of any of these indicators I'll stick with what has always worked for me. Fuel from the pump.

So, that would be a nay from me.

George in Birmingham
'03 Magna 6298
George in Birmingham
2003 Magna 6298

Re: fuel additive

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 88030
Jim - where are you buying the ILFC Ten 35??? found their website... no buy links there. Googled it with little success also, so called them and they pointed me to boostmyfuel.com with an email contact of kelly@...... it's the same stuff private labeled, they told me.
With the minimal driving we do, probably a quart or even a point would be enough to start with

Joseph Burkle

2008 Country Coach Inspire 360 Founders Edition 43' quad slide tag axle 425 HP C9 pusher http://www. Wind-seeker.com/

Re: fuel additive

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 88032
:)! As I said, whatever a person is using, is the best, even if it is nothing at all:::))))!!!!
I find that George provides great input, and has helped me many times. And, his coach being an 03 means it probably has an engine designed pre ULSD. I think he has a CAT.
I have a Cummins. And I finally decided to use an additive for three reasons:

1) IRV2 Cummins Board member Spike45 is well respected, and worked around these engines and filters for them until he retired. He sees no downside to additives.
2) Cummins sells additives, now. This could be just to help on revenue, but it also could be the need was their. When an engine goes South, it is their name on it.

Here is a quote from their website:
"Additionally, low sulfur diesel fuel has lower lubricity due to the refining de-sulfurization process. Lubricity additives are added at the fuel pipeline rack, however, lubricity additives sold in the aftermarket can be considered insurance to provide fuel system wear protection."

And 3) Refer to the quote. I do it for insurance.
I suppose I should also add that I don't consider the expense out of line for this added insurance.
But like George, I have talked to many owners that do not run additives. I've also talked to owners that have run additives and still had problems with say their pumps or injectors pumps.

Who knows:)! You make your decision, and then you move on...
Best to all, and to be clear - I'm sure not arguing with George. But, I thought the info that Cummins is commenting about lower lubricity of ULSD was supportive of the info he was looking for.
Smitty

04 Allure 31017 ISL (Sorry I did not include this in my earlier post.)
04 Allure Sold to a nice new owner! Now enjoying a 07 Magna Rembrandt 45' ISX600 #6775
"We're ONDROAD for THEJRNY!" (Toad and Coach license plates, say Hi if you see us!)

Re: fuel additive

Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 88036
A 15 minute warm-up is likely to really PO your neighbors...it sure does me when someone decides to idle at 6:30am on a layover day!

Dave Glen

'06 magna 6591

Re: fuel additive

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 88037
I use Fuel Additives developed by the first company to formulate additives back in 1909, BellPerformance.com.
Their website will tell you about the horrors of Ethanol Gas in Regular Ethanol Gas and also Diesel Gas so check it out as I have had Zero Problems with my lawn equipment, my motorcycle, my SeaDoos or my cars.
They have Great Video Tuturiols which tell you everything you need to know and you can ask a Technician to call you and he will call you and answer all of your questions which I did call and was amazed at the information which I later checked out.
Here is the Link if you are interested in finding out about the horrors of Ethanol Gas and how it deteriorates, etc.
http://www.bellperformance.com/

Re: fuel additive

Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 88039
I buy it from my local rep who does in fact buy it in a large amount & private labels it with only TEN 35 info from them on the bottle. I do carry this in our store and I might be able to send it out? Is it hazardous? We sell it here for $55 dollars for a 16oz bottle. I've heard of boost my fuel only from poking around the internet.

Jim

From:jbrosecity Sent: Friday, May 24, 2013 1:25 PM To:Country-Coach-Owners@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Country-Coach-Owners] Re: fuel additive

Jim - where are you buying the ILFC Ten 35??? found their website... no buy links there. Googled it with little success also, so called them and they pointed me to boostmyfuel.com with an email contact of mailto:kelly%40boostmyfuel.com... it's the same stuff private labeled, they told me.
With the minimal driving we do, probably a quart or even a point would be enough to start with

Joseph Burkle

2008 Country Coach Inspire 360 Founders Edition 43' quad slide tag axle 425 HP C9 pusher http://www. Wind-seeker.com/
Quote from: "Jim Lewis"
I believe everyone owning a
diesel RV should use a fuel treatment.

Quote
>

Now which one is the
million dollar question. For me personally, most seem like snake oil, and unless I really believe the person selling it or (worse yet) believe the label that some marketing person made up for the manufacture or distributor, I need to really understand what I'm putting in & why.

Quote
>

First is
Demulsifier, which removes water from the fuel, next is a lubricant, which lubricates the fuel system, combustion catalyst which contains a dispersant to stabilize fuel in storage, polymerization retardant, which keeps diesel fuel pumpable & combustible. Lastly for me is handling & storage ? how much do I need to carry & store in the coach.

Quote
>

For me I was
introduced to a product over 8 years ago from our Fleetguard rep, made by ILFC (International Lubrication & Fuel Consultants) "Ten 35". http://www.ilfcinc.com/Product/1035.asp
Quote
>

What & Why I like this product is because it's easy to
deal with, 1 ounce per 79 gallons, 1 bottle equals 1264 gallons of fuel and cost $3.44 per treatment. It really has nothing to do about the cost for me, more so on what it does and how is it to deal with it. Did I mention that this product can be added at any time, so if you run out or forget to add, it doesn't have to be added while fueling for proper mix. Also if you overdose, it's only costing you money, doesn't hurt the fuel. Sometimes, only after having a lab analyze the fuel with a vehicle having fuel issues, we've had to double dose and/or even more of a dosage, per their recommendation to repair the fuel.



Jim Lewis

Quote
Infinity Coach

PS ? Also if you have a diesel
fired hydronic system ? I strongly recommend fuel treatment.



From: Jock Vargo

Quote
Sent: Friday, May 24, 2013 9:47 AM

To:
href="mailto:Country-Coach-Owners%40yahoogroups.com">mailto:Country-Coach-Owners%40yahoogroups.com

Quote
Subject: Re: [Country-Coach-Owners] fuel additive >

Tom,

I have been using Power Service
since 3/2008. There are 2 types. I only used the one in the grey carton. I never go anyplace where I need the anti-gel so the grey container works for me. I buy mine at Wal-Mart in the auto section. Runs about $17.00 per 250 gallons of treatment. I can't say I notice any change in engine, however, I did gain about 1/2 MPG since stating.

Quote
>

Jock Vargo

2005 Inspire

Quote
51428

On Fri,
May 24, 2013 at 8:54 AM, Tom wrote:

Quote
> I have talked to two RV'ers lately that said they use an additive with
every fillup to protect their engine. They are saying that the new fuel does not have the proper ingredients for the lifters and other mechanical parts. Does anyone have any yeas or nays on the subject. I am leaning on doing it, but need some more imput.

Quote
Thanks
Tom

2005 Inspire

51177

Re: fuel additive

Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 88040
I think the evidence is in the pudding. Around here (Seattle area) our Fred Meyers have been putting in a machine next to the pump for an extra charge you can select good, better & best additives. My old shop truck which is a 2000 Toyota truck with around 150,000 miles. It gets kinda regular maintenance (when I remember to ask one of my guys to change oil or I have time) and lately, past 6 months it's been getting 16-18 mpg mostly doing around town errands. So I thought why not, I had a 30cent discount one day so I put in the "best"? at a cost of $7.99. Fuel mileage went up to 22 on that first tank and the next one was 22.3, currently on the 3rd tank now. Will it last, who knows. Was it worth $8 bucks? idk? Time will tell, but it shows me that all of todays fuel is getting cheaper & cheaper and if we care for what we own then it's going to be up to us to put our own additives back into our fuel - Diesel or Gas. And even the big box stores are seeing a reason to install these, probably a way to generate more revenue, but it looks like it's the way it is.
Do or don't run additives, the choice is NOW yours. Not like the good ol days when they just put it in because they cared!

Jim

From:George Sent: Friday, May 24, 2013 12:44 PM To:Country-Coach-Owners@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Country-Coach-Owners] Re: fuel additive
Tom,

I keep thinking that if there was a need for a fuel additive there would be some scientific evidence that it is needed. And, there would be some scientific evidence showing the benefits of the available products. I would expect that, at the least, one of the engine builders would recommend that you need something.
In the absence of any of these indicators I'll stick with what has always worked for me. Fuel from the pump.

So, that would be a nay from me.

George in Birmingham
'03 Magna 6298

Quote from: "Tom"
I have talked to two RV'ers
lately that said they use an additive with every fillup to protect their engine. They are saying that the new fuel does not have the proper ingredients for the lifters and other mechanical parts. Does anyone have any yeas or nays on the subject. I am leaning on doing it, but need some more imput.

 
Thanks

Quote
Tom

2005 Inspire 51177

Re: fuel additive

Reply #15 –
Yahoo Message Number: 88041
And is about the "worst" thing you can do to a modern diesel engine!

Jim 07 Allure #31570

Re: fuel additive

Reply #16 –
Yahoo Message Number: 88042
Jim,

Not a bit of science in this gasoline anecdote.
I know the guys who spend money on additives love what they use. I am convinced that if any of the additive companies had a scientific study that their product added value they would publicize it.
The producers won't even fund an analysis because the money is better spent in marketing. And, they know won't like the result of the analysis.

George in Birmingham
'03 Magna 6298
George in Birmingham
2003 Magna 6298

Re: fuel additive

Reply #17 –
Yahoo Message Number: 88044
I was told at a Cummins seminar that unnecessary idling strips the cylinder walls of lubricant due to the extremely lean mixture of air and fuel causing premature failure of the cylinder wall liners. I guess if you have a 5.9 Dodge it doesn't matter but anything bigger your asking for trouble. Plus you are polluting the whole world and your neighbors with noise and making those of us with asthma and bronchitis really suffer. That brings up a question, why does a Cummins exhaust smell different from a Cat from a Detroit series 60?
TWI 2004 Intrigue 11731

Re: fuel additive

Reply #19 –
Yahoo Message Number: 88046
I got hold of some fuel that was polluted in Brookings Oregon. After adding additives 4 times and changing the primary fuel filter 5 times and the secondary twice over a 6 month period things seem to be OK again. Funny, I never had to change the Hydrohot filter or nozzle other than for my annual spring service even though the glass for the hydro hot almost turned a dark brown. .
TWI 2004 Intrigue 117311

fuel additive

Reply #20 –
Yahoo Message Number: 88047
I am useing this in the fuel in my 06 Ford as you can see the 6.0 has oil fired injectors also (Hydraulic Electronic Unit Injector system (HEUI) and after 3 tanks my injectors sound a lot different at startup. 1oz per 80 gals or 1/2oz when I fillup.
http://www.evergreenamerica.com/store/index.php?route=product/category&path=57 I sent them an e-mail asking about there product and here is there reply Hi! My name is Tim Stegenga and I work with Rick and David at Evergreen.
I am working with one of Jay Lenos Techs on his CAT Powered RV. It has a 3208 - 250 HP in it. I am waiting for confirmation of the results after using our product. He does love the stuff!! My cell phone number is: 815.701.8531 if you would like to discuss Archoil further. If you prefer I call you get me your cell and a good time to call. THANKS!

Tim Stegenga

Go Green Technologies, Corp.
Cell: (815) 701 8531

Then I call him and talked to him on the phone, then he sent me this.
It was a pleasure speaking with you this afternoon. We appreciate the opportunity to earn your business.
Here you go! This is our website where you can order from (http://gogreentechcorp.com/). Just go to the Archoil name and click on it and it will open up our on line store. I would order a 32oz bottle of AR6200 (treats 2500 gallons of fuel $139.95) and 2 quarts of the AR9100 ($59.95 x 2 $119.90) for the C9 - 10 gallon sump engine. You could order a 1 gallon jug of the AR9100 ($179.95) so you have enough for 1 oil change on the Motor home and several on the Ford. Here is our website with the shopping cart on it. If you have any questions please don't hesitate to call.

This is just something to think about. They did have a price increase Floyd 2006 Inspire 51744

Re: fuel additive

Reply #21 –
Yahoo Message Number: 88050
Jock,

Looked at the product label, and it warned that it was for 2007 and newer exhaust systems and filters.
Didn't buy it because my Inspire is 2006. Don't know if that is important or not, but it's there.
Jim
#51649

Re: fuel additive

Reply #22 –
Yahoo Message Number: 88053
Check out Opti-Lube.com/ - They have some third party testing results on the lubricity of their products and others published on this site.
It's pretty informative.
Herb H.

05 Allure 31209

Re: fuel additive

Reply #23 –
Yahoo Message Number: 88055
Jim,

I use it due to ULS Fuel that is used today. If I could use the old fuel, I would not use it at all.

Jock Vargo

2005 Inspire
51428

Re: fuel additive

Reply #24 –
Yahoo Message Number: 88066
I have had problems with both my two cycle chain saw and outboard motor. I was told by the two mechanics to use non-ethanol fuel.

Dan 2006 Allure 31348