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Norcold Photos

Yahoo Message Number: 90706
I recently did an inspection of the cooling unit on the Norcold in my coach. I noticed that the cooling unit had been replaced - the tag said Pines RV. I believe that is an Amish cooling unit, correct?

Here are some photos https://www.dropbox.com/sh/1czf8rn51dw63tv/zJ2B-oSB6-
I see plenty of rust, but didn't notice any of the yellow chromate. It may be hiding though. How concerning is the rust?

I am probably 90% there and ready to swap it out anyway. The cooling is mediocre at best and one of the handles on the fridge has snapped off. It stays closed, but is a pain to open.

Just thought I'd ask the group to confirm and push me the rest of the way to a swap. :-)

Dan

2006 Allure 430 with tag
#31344

Re: Norcold Photos

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 90726
So does every Norcold look like this in the back?
I haven't seen too many pictures of Norcold backs. The picture on Scott's site clearly shows yellow chromate, but not so much rust. So not sure what to make of the rust on mine.
http://muniac.smugmug.com/Maintenance/Bus-Repairs/14769331_GDMKu#!i=1190813640&k=Vw9tNGQ

I've been known to be a tad dense at times, I guess this does look quite suspect. :-)

Dan

2006 Allure 430 with tag
#31344

Re: Norcold Photos

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 90728
A NOCold is an accident waiting to happen. The long term fix is residential refer. It is easy and safe. Why play Russian Roulette?

Mikee

Re: Norcold Photos

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 90758
I have gone ahead and ordered the Samsung RF197ACPN, this is the platinum stainless model.
I went and looked at the platinum at a local Best Buy. Even though it is a painted surface (as opposed to a real stainless steel) I like it much better than SS. For sure it will fingerprint less. In the store I found it very hard to get any prints to show! It is a matte finish which also helps.

There were several sales on this model, most of which ended a week or so ago. After doing some good searching I found it available a couple places at very good prices.

Goedekers in Missouri has it for $1085 - free shipping from Reno (and it is in stock)

http://www.goedekers.com/product/Samsung-RF220NCTASP/21-6-Cu--Ft--Stainless-Platinum-French-Door-Refrigerator---Energy-Star.html
Gerdhard's has it at a lower price - $1029 but theirs ships from the east coast and would take a much longer time to arrive in Utah.

http://www.gerhardsappliance.com/samsung-rf197acpn.html
I will also mention that AJ Madison has the most comprehensive appliance search I have ever seen!

http://www.ajmadison.com/refrigerators
Their search option cover every imaginable size, width, depth (with and without handles) and option available.
As other have mentioned, the Samsung is about the only choice if you want a dual door or french door. The Fisher Paykel is nice, but more money and only a single wide door (one for fridge and one for freezer) A 33" wide door is a bit too wide for me.

Here is their search with sizes that will fit a CC http://www.ajmadison.com/b.php?N=26+4294966346+773&Nf_prop=_width&Nf_op=BTWN&Nf_from=31.5&Nf_to=33&image=&propname_width=Width
Hopefully this info will help someone looking to replace their Norcold.

Dan

2006 Allure 430 with tag
#31344

Re: Careful with AJ Madison

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 90766
Hi Dan,

Thank you for providing all that great information. One note of caution. I bought all my appliances, BBQ, doors, etc for the outdoor kitchen I built at the Motorcoach Country Club (MCC) in Indio thru AJMadison. Had a horrible experience with them. They told me that had everything in stock (approx. $7K worth of equipment I was buying thru them) and they would ship right away. Turns out they did not have everything in stock. It took me over 2 months for them to finally complete my entire order. This was summer of 2008 and there customer service was very difficult to work if they answered at all.
After that experience, I do not use that at all now even though I have built another outdoor kitchen at the Outdoor Resorts in Las Vegas.
I just finished the buildout of my LVMC lot and attached a couple of photos if anyone is interested.

Rick,

2004 Allure, 31018

Re: Norcold Photos

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 90769
Ok, I would like, summarize what I think I learned about the NotSoCold refrigerator.

1. There is a chance of fire, which is caused by propane. So, if you never use propane will you still have the chance of having a fire?
2. A Samsung residential is a good substitute however, you need a PSW inverter and some type of latching mechanism.

3. Another solution would be a Amish refrigerator, this has a halon fire extinguisher that would put out a fire. I don't know how you can monitor the fire extinguisher when it needs to be recharged and how would u know if it goes off?

Wally & Elta Mae

2007Allure 470 #31535

Re: Norcold Photos

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 90772
I'll comment based on what I have learned in the last few days, which may or may not be right.

1) I believe there is still a chance of fire even if you only use the fridge on electricity.

The core issue with an RV ammonia absorption system is a rupture of the tubing which is usually due to poor engineering/poor manufacturing (bad welds, thin tubing, bad controls, etc.) or due to improper use (using the device when not level which can cause a blockage).

It has been said that being off of level as little as 6 degrees side to side or 3 degrees front to back can cause an blockage with an RV refrigerator. To put that in perspective, 6 degrees side to side is one side being 10" higher or lower than the other side. 3 degrees front to back is 25" on a 40' coach. I don't think that many of us operate the fridges under these conditions, but I'm sure it happens. I have done it. I know I don't run back and turn it off if I park on an incline. They say that going outside these limits while driving is OK since the inevitable rocking back and forth prevents blockages.

The rupture can and will occur while using propane or electricity since both are heating up the tubes to get the ammonia to boil to start the cooling process. Once there is a rupture, ammonia and hydrogen are released which are flammable under the right conditions and temperatures. Granted, using electricity will reduce the chance of a fire (due to no flame, so no easy ignition source) but not totally eliminate it. A small spark can start combustion as well as overheated components.

This article is a great read on how the systems works and why it fails.
http://www.aegiforensics.com/library/pdfs/Invest-Absorpt-Refrig-Fires-Part1.pdf
2) I don't think that a Samsung needs a Pure Sine Wave inverter, it seems like many have used it on a Xantrex modified sine wave inverter without issues. Can someone confirm this for sure? I still have a Xantrex in my coach.

3) Do all of the Amish cooling units have a halon extinguisher or are you referring to a specific unit? To me any fire would be catastrophic. Yes a fire that starts and gets put out with an extinguisher would be averting a disaster, but still catastrophic. The replacement amish cooling units are no doubt better units, but I have read of failures even on those units.

The heavy research and reading I've done the last few days along with the very helpful posts here led me to order the Samsung. I don't think an ammonia absorption refrigerator can be completely safe. The advancements and efficiency of a residential refrigerator has reached the point that it is viable in most use cases. I'm glad I've stayed safe to this point and am replacing mine to dodge a future bullet.

Dan

2006 Allure 430 with tag
#31344

Re: Norcold Photos

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 90773
You do not need a PSW inverter for a Samsung. We have been running ours for six mos on a MSW inverter, with no problems. When you are connected to shore power, the inverter is irrelevant. You do need latching systems to keep the doors and freezer drawer closed on curves. We use Southco push latches on the doors and a sliding door latch like that shown in a recent photo.
06 Intrigue 11993

Re: Norcold Photos

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 90786
MY answers to your questions - someone else may have other opinions:

1. Yes - When running on electricity, an electric heating element is used instead of the propane flame - still cools via a high heat source.

2. You do need a latching mechanism but you do NOT need to go to a pure sine wave inverter -- MSW works just fine with a Samsung.

3. It is my understanding that a halon fire extinguisher is NOT part of the normal Pines Refrigeration Unit (Amish replacement cooling unit for the Norcold)- it must be purchased and installed separately. Many folks feel that the more robust design and construction of the Amish unit is sufficient and does not need the fire extinguisher -- others feel that is an additional layer of 'comfort and protection'.

John

2006 Inspire DaVinci with a Samsung refrigerator and a MSW inverter

Re: Careful with AJ Madison

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 90788
WOW! What a beautiful outdoor kitchen! I hope you have a nice infrared grill in there...I've recently fallen in love with infrared as the preferred method for a SUPER hot and SUPER fast sear for my sous vide cooking. But that is for another thread. (mmm...whats for dinner???) :-)
I probably was't very clear, I didn't order from AJ Madison because their price was higher and they ship from the east coast. I preferred their site though for serious research over all others because of the plethora of options and the completeness of their results. Light years ahead of Best Buy and even Samsung themselves.
I did order it from Goedekers after verbally confirming stock in Reno (which is just 520 miles west of me) and a solid ship date.

Thanks!
Dan

2006 Allure 430 with tag
#31344