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Charging Starter Battery

Yahoo Message Number: 94053
Pardon my ignorance, but I would just like to know. On my '05 Country Coach Inspire, I use the alternator to charge my starter battery. As an alternative charging method, am I supposed to be able to do that with my onboard diesel generator? If so, how do I know it's working, other than taking a measurement on the battery? Of course, if the coach starts, that's a clue. With shore power, used to charge my house batteries, I can see the charging on my monitor panel. There's no similar panel for the chassis battery.

Gary Collins

Re: Charging Starter Battery

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 94055
You have an echo charger located in the chassis battery compartment. Its a small box and is connected to you inverter/charger ..When the inverter is on the echo charger is on also . There are lights on the echo and I think when working correctly the green light in on steady.
Rod

Re: Charging Starter Battery

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 94056
Gary

You should have a Xantrex Echo Charger Xantrex Echo Charge in the battery bay where the chassis battery is, the large 8D. It should be up on the right hand side and there are 2 inline fuses you need to check plus there is a small light on it if it is working. Mine quit so I installed the Magnum Combiner Magnum Smart Battery Combiner ME-SBC works great.
I also have one of these in a power port so I can see the voltage when it is just setting, got it a Ace Hardware Amazon.com: INNOVA 3721 Battery and Charging System Monitor: Automotive My voltage runs 13.6 most the time. When I got my coach it only took 2 weeks and my new 8D was down and would not start the motor. Your gen-set should charge you house batteries then charge your chassis batteries, same on shore power.
Floyd 2006 Inspire 51744
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Re: Charging Starter Battery

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 94061
Each rig is different.

Use a voltmeter to see if shore power or generator power is received at the starting battery. Should be about 13.6 dcv if it is.
If not, you can install a Trik-L-Start thingy which costs about $50 to accomplish the deed. Three wires attached to your batteries gets it done.

Re: Charging Starter Battery

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 94074
I had to replace the fuse to my echo charger which is above and to the right of the starter battery.

Leon

2005 Inspire
#51486

Re: Charging Starter Battery

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 94086
Hmmm. Nice idea on the TRIK-L-START charger. Connection diagram shows hookups to both house and starter batteries. My starter battery and house batteries are on opposite sides of my coach. Instructions explain that the connections can also be made at the "battery isolator relay" or "selector switch" in lieu of direct connection to the battery terminals. So now I have to figure out where this relay or switch is, if it exists on my coach. Definitely need some kind of external charging device.

Gary Collins

Re: Charging Starter Battery

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 94088
What were the observed symptoms prior to replacing the fuse? Was the echo charger not working at all (no green light, no charging)?. I see at least two fused lines connected to my echo charger, maybe three (am not at the coach right now). What do these lines connect to? Are they inputs or outputs?

Gary Collins

Re: Charging Starter Battery

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 94089
Thanks for the very helpful suggestion. Appreciate your response. So let's say I'm measuring 13.6 VDC on my chassis battery with shore power. What does that tell me about the charging system for this battery? It is charged, but how did it get that way? Let's say I unplug the shore power connection and start my generator? I read 13.6 VDC on the battery with my voltmeter. Where does the input for the Xantrex Echo Charger in the battery bay come from? Generator? Shore power? Alternator?

The green light on the Xantrex Echo Charger only comes on with the alternator, and not the generator or shore power. Does that tell me that the charging system is or is not working as designed?

Gary Collins

Re: Charging Starter Battery

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 94090
Hi Floyd,

Great information. Thanks much. I did some checking with my voltmeter. RV wouldn't start this morning with shore power hooked up (30 amps). Measured 11.78 VDC on the starter battery (not enough voltage). Xantrex Echo Charger light was off. Note: Coach started last Sunday on pad, has not been driven since. Obviously shore power has nothing to do with the charging system for the chassis battery (it ran down).

Started generator. Xantrex Echo Charger light still off. Obviously generator has nothing to do with it.

Jumped the battery and started the coach. Xantrex Echo Charger light now green. Charged up battery to 13.9 VDC using alternator.

Conclusion: The only way to charge the chassis battery with the Echo Charger using the factory installed charging system is by starting the engine. Possible exception: One of the fuses you mentioned may be blown. Will check those tomorrow. Have no idea what circuits these fuses protect.

Any comments?

Gary Collins

Re: Charging Starter Battery

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 94100
Gary,

So far I haven't heard anyone mention the fact that the Echo Charger will not charge the chassis battery until the coach (house) batteries attain a preset voltage. When on shore power the coach batteries are charged by the inverter/charger.
I can't remember now the value but it is basically fully charged. So basically the Echo Charger does not charge the chassis battery until the coach batteries are fully charged first.

When the engine is running the chassis battery and coach batteries are connected together in parallel by an oil pressure activated solenoid. When the oil pressure comes up after starting the engine the solenoid closes. It is the same solenoid that is activated manually by the so called 'battery boost' switch. It connects the coach battery to the chassis battery regardless of the voltage condition of either one of them. When running the generator I believe that the battery charging logic works the same as when on shore power in that the chassis battery will be charged by the echo charger once the coach batteries have reached the desired voltage.

The meaning of the green light on/flashing/on-full has always given rise to a lot of confusion. If you are on shore power for an extended period of time and the chassis batteries become discharged then something is wrong with the Echo Charger. Mine always worked correctly but reading other's posts it appears finding out exactly what is wrong can be a challenge. I requires a complete understanding of how it is supposed to work as described in the manual. If you don't have one I bet Google can find one.

If the Echo Charger is working correctly you should not need a trickle charger.

Don Seager

Ex CC owner

Re: Charging Starter Battery

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 94102
Sounds like the Echo Charge device leads to the chassis and house battery banks might be reversed. The CC factory had a history of mis-wiring these devices over the years. Try swapping the leads; you may be able to do this at the fuse connections.
--

Tom Harsch 2002 Allure #30791
Yuma, AZ

Re: Charging Starter Battery

Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 94110
Don,

Thanks for enlightening me on how this system is supposed to work. I have always thought of the chassis and house batteries as separate systems, but now know that's not true. I downloaded the manual and a cursory review reveals that the echo charger is supposed to kick in when a 1/2 volt difference is detected between the house batteries and the chassis battery. That probably isn't happening.

What I did not mention earlier is that I tried to use the battery boost switch in the coach to connect the house and chassis batteries. That didn't work. Prior to doing this, I measured 11.78 VDC at the chassis battery. The coach will start when the charge on the chassis battery reaches 12.6 VDC. It seems to me that connecting the house and chassis batteries through the battery boost switch should have worked.

Though I haven't used the battery boost switch in a long time, I seem to recall sort of a clattering noise when used in the past and I have been able to use it to assist the chassis battery in starting the coach. Now there's nothing when I press it. It seems to have no influence on the chassis battery.

Right now I am going to thoroughly read the manual, and then go out to the pad and see what the chassis battery is doing when connected to shore power. I will measure the voltage on the house and chassis batteries and check the light on the echo charger. My prediction is that the chassis battery is slowly discharging when connected to shore power, possibly due to no echo charge interaction. May I come back to you with my findings?

Gary Collins

Re: Charging Starter Battery

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 94111
Tom,

With our coach, many things were not done correctly at the factory so miswiring would not surprise me. A very reliable service technician in this area has the opinion that it all started going down hill when Country Coach was acquired by National in the few years preceding our purchase of a new Country Coach in 2005.

The echo charger seems to work when the engine starts. Would that be true if the wires were hooked up wrong?

Gary Collins

Re: Charging Starter Battery

Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 94112
Gary,

The coach would not start without using the battery booster from the house batteries. Your echo charger has one LED that will be green charging), blinking green (maybe a trickle charge), Red (malfunction from the charger) not lit (no power to the charger). Make sure your coach is hooked to power and look at the light. I would do this at night because it is easy to see the LED. There are several fuses, so just unplug your coach from power and ohm or look at the fuse when you remove the fuse from the holder. I'm not at the coach so I can provide wire color or any other info. I hope this helps.

Leon

2005 Inspire
#51486

Re: Charging Starter Battery

Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 94113
One other thing I learned is that at least on my 8kw Onan, it has its own (about 8 amp) charging system wired directly to the house batteries on my coach, independent of the coach charger inverter. Whether this will cause the Echo to charge the chassis batteries, I have never explored. When boondocking, the Echo definitely works off of my solar cells after the house batteries are charged.

Rich 2002 Magna

Re: Charging Starter Battery

Reply #15 –
Yahoo Message Number: 94114
The 2 battery banks are separate. The echo charger will charge the other bank when one bank is above xx voltage. Either way chassis charging house or vice versa. That is that is the only ti
The battery boost switch is a big relay that ties the 2 banks together when activated so the stronger bank will charge the weaker bank. Typically used to boost the chassis bank to start the coach. You should hear a clunk when it is activated. You may need to be outside the coach with a helper hitting the switch.
If the chassis battery voltage does not increase when it is activated it may not be working. It will not instantly come to the higher voltage, but work its way up .

Mikee

Re: Charging Starter Battery

Reply #16 –
Yahoo Message Number: 94116
I had green light on echo charger and chassis batteries were not charging on shore power. I sent echo charger to Inverter Service Center in White House TN. They checked it out and determined it was bad so I replaced the echo charger. Dave2005 Allure#31284 From:

Re: Charging Starter Battery

Reply #17 –
Yahoo Message Number: 94117
Gary,

When the engine is running the echo charger is not part of the equation. Your alternator is charging both banks of batteries by way of a combiner solenoid which is closed by a signal from an oil pressure switch.

George in Birmingham
'03 Magna 6298
George in Birmingham
2003 Magna 6298

Re: Charging Starter Battery

Reply #18 –
Yahoo Message Number: 94118
When my Boost switch didn't work I found that the circuit breaker had tripped. It is a red reset button near the house battery on the wall.

Brian O'Day

2006 Inspire #51565
2011 Escape Hybrid Toad
Portland Oregon

Re: Charging Starter Battery

Reply #19 –
Yahoo Message Number: 94121
Don,

The voltage this morning on the chassis battery was 12.3 VDC, while the charge on the house battery bank was 13.5 VDC. That's a 1.2 VDC difference. The manual says the echo charger should kick in when the chassis battery is 1/2 to 1 volt below the house battery. It's right on the edge, but the echo charger remains off when connected to shore power. The only indication observed on the echo charger is either a steady green or nothing. There is no blinking green (house batteries below 13.0 VDC) or red (thermal shutdown) indication under any scenario. The manual says to check the fuse connected to the red wire if the light is off, presumably meaning that it never comes on.

My wife watched the echo charger when I pressed the battery boost switch in the coach, and it flashes on and goes off when released so it appears that there is a connection through this switch.

The fact is, given enough time, the chassis battery will discharge on the pad and the echo charger will not alleviate that. The static charge on the chassis battery was 12.3 VDC when measured. After starting the coach it was 13.9 VDC. If it gets to 14.0 VDC the echo charger is supposed to reduce the current. The chassis battery is probably a couple of years old, but I have no reason to believe it is bad.

Right now I have a better understanding of how the system is supposed to work. I don't believe it is working right. Why do so many people on this forum like to use trickle chargers, if their echo chargers are working as designed?

Gary Collins '05 CC Inspire 51491

Re: Charging Starter Battery

Reply #20 –
Yahoo Message Number: 94122
Dave,

That's very interesting. We have actually traveled all the way to Whitehouse, TN to get our inverter/charger worked on. The inverter was found to have a weak breaker, which had been tripping, and it was replaced. Some repairmen seem to have little knowledge of how to troubleshoot and repair an installed inverter. The Whitehouse technician put the device on the bench and checked it out.
Gary Collins

Re: Charging Starter Battery

Reply #21 –
Yahoo Message Number: 94125
Since we are on the lift system my question is. The manuel system works great, but the auto system not so great. Left rear jack will not go down at all, system tries to level but just can't quite get there.

Tom 2005 Inspire 51177

Re: Charging Starter Battery

Reply #22 –
Yahoo Message Number: 94126
I had a device connected to the chassis batteries with a LED that shows green when the voltage Is at or above 13 volts It is visible through the louvers and is always green with the engine running

or connected to shore power It is used by truckers. Bob. 06 intrigue 12047

Re: Charging Starter Battery

Reply #23 –
Yahoo Message Number: 94127
Gary,

As I mentioned before I have little practical experience with the Echo Charger and it's manuals simply because mine never failed. All of what I understand comes form reading 10 years of other's posts on the subject. Everything you are telling me brings me to the conclusion that your Echo Charger is not doing it's job for whatever cause. If you have checked all of it's fuses then that brings us to the situation where a number of owners over the years have found that CC had wired the system backward. That would mean that the Echo charger would be set up to charge the coach batteries when the chassis battery was 1/2 volt above the coach batteries. If one believes that the Echo Charger actually has a defined input and output then it would take a while to logically think out what the symptoms would be. In any case it could also take a while for those symptoms to be seen especially for those who are on the go a lot.

One thing that seems to make sense to me is that there must be a relative voltage level set as well as the 1/2 to 1 volt differential between the coach batteries and the chassis battery. I makes no sense to possibly have the coach batteries setting at 10 volts trying to charge a chassis battery setting at 9 volts. At this point my suggestion would be to bring the manufacturer into problem and have the Echo Charger bench tested.

I have no idea of why some owners use a trickle charger to supplement the Echo Charger. I guess we will have to hear from a couple of them. I do know that the trickle charger should be of a fairly good quality so that it has adequate sensing to not overcharge the batteries. Also voltage levels of AGM type batteries are slightly different from lead acid types.

Good luck with finding the solution.

Don Seager

Former CC Owner

Re: Charging Starter Battery

Reply #24 –
Yahoo Message Number: 94128
The trickle charger is used as a band aid.  Why not fix the problem?

Dan 2006 Allure 31348  C-9