I need to get better fuel milage. Maybe the Heat and Hot Water is k

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I need to get better fuel milage. Maybe the Heat and Hot Water is k

March 19, 2014, 10:53:03 am

Yahoo Message Number: 94465

Hi all,

I have a 03 40 foot Allure with the 370 ILS cummins / 3 slides / tag. I did load her up some what, (On our way to bike week) I even went as far as put the Coach on a scale, with the Toad. It totaled 37,200 lbs. The coach is rated for 44,200 Lbs. I traveled at 64 MPH, as it kept the rpm at about 1700. I only got 6.2 MPG. Not sure if the banks system or K&N air filter or what. Not looking to add more power, as I am not looking the beat on my coach. I want to see if I can get to 8 MPG. I hear about flashing the motor. Again I am not looking to fly up hills or anything crazy. I took the coach from NC to Daytona, 90% flat run. We had a few cold nights, and I ran the Hydro hurricane heat, and I do have on demand Hot water. We had a few nights that went down into the 40's. I factored everything when totaling the fuel used. I think I was getting like 6.9 before the heat was factored. Does that sound right? Any and all help will be greatly appreciated.

Bob

03 Allure 40 / tag #30814

Re: I need to get better fuel milage. Maybe the Heat and Hot Water

Reply #1 – March 19, 2014, 11:54:46 am

Yahoo Message Number: 94467

on our '04 Allure, we took it to Cummins in Tulsa OK (highly recommended). They replaced a lift pump and reprogrammed the parameters in the engine management. We haven't checked the mileage but it seems to be much better. It wouldn't compare to your rig anyway because we have a 33'.
We also joined the Cummins Power Club which entitles us to receive 10% discounts on parts and service. Last year we attended the Cummins Come Home Rally in Columbus, Indiana. We were advised to use the Economy Mode to improve fuel mileage. The transmission shifts much better in Economy Mode. They recommended using the Economy Mode all the time except in steep grades.
Lonny & Diane Livingston
'04 Allure #31065

Re: I need to get better fuel milage. Maybe the Heat and Hot Water

Reply #2 – March 19, 2014, 12:18:04 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 94468

I consistently get over 8 mpg with an ISL 400 weighing in at 43,000 lbs including toad, unless my fan controller is messed up, and that can cost me .75 to 1 mpg. So if your fan is running all the time, that could be part of your issue. You may have a leaking charge air cooler which prevents the engine from developing full power and causing it to run to rich using excess fuel, too... The guys at Cummins can diagnose both problems if you don't have a sharp repair facility for your coach. I'm on my 3rd charge air cooler an will have my fourth fan controller installed when I bring the coach out of hibernation. My original charge air cooler was bad out of the box. The second one lasted 8 years. The fan controllers are a pain! TWI 2004 Intrigue Ovation 11731 42 foot. 3 slides

Re: I need to get better fuel milage. Maybe the Heat and Hot Water

Reply #3 – March 19, 2014, 01:43:40 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 94469

Lonnie - Is your ISL a VGT or CAPS era engine? (Some 2004 CC's came with the earlier generation CAPS ISL, others have the newer generations Common Rail with Variable Geometry Turbo.)

Just curious, as I keep hearing of ISL's being updated with different flashed ECM's, but most of these seem to be the newer generation. The CAPS generation, in my case ISL370 has one upgrade to 400, but reading the specifics of the HP and Torque bandwidth, the 400 was not in a usable range for us. So we opted not to pay the money for that upgrade.

Last question, you said they replaced a lift pump. Are you running any additives to help lubricate the lift and injector pumps? My 2004 Allure, has a July of 2003 built ISL that was not made to run on the new ULSD. I add Optilube to each tank, to provide lubrication.

Enjoy, and I hope the engine runs strong for you for a long time, Smitty

04 Allure 31017 40' Tag ISL370

Re: I need to get better fuel milage. Maybe the Heat and Hot Water

Reply #4 – March 19, 2014, 01:59:03 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 94470

Lonny - Sorry about the Lonnie (old friend spells his name that way:)!) Smitty

Re: I need to get better fuel milage. Maybe the Heat and Hot Water

Reply #5 – March 19, 2014, 02:19:20 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 94471

Bob,

We have a 2004 40' High Cascade two driver side slide coach, also with the the ISL370. This is a CAPS era ISL, as is yours.

I find the best MPG is yielded between 58-62. Close to the peak torque, vs peak HP. And just not as hard pushing these big boxes thru the air. I do drive in Economy mode, and do manually downshift for hills. I keep the RPM's up between the 1700-1900 range for hill climbs, dropping gears to reach this. I also will downshift to 5th, when in rolling hills or city traffic conditions - to avoid transmission 'gear' hunting.

If this is a new to you coach. You might also reset the Allison/Cummins computer, I think it's just by disconnecting the battery for a period of time (double check this if you decide you want to do this) - as these computers 'learn' your driving style and especially when not in economy mode, adjust the shifting pattern accordingly.

And finally, if you are new to DP's, they are a different kind of driving skill then gas. Slow gradual accelerations, pays dividends in around town driving. I really do coast as much as possible, and I leave my Jake off unless needed. (Wolfe, The CAT Man on many boards, says his favorite gear is coasting!). Small things will add up to yield better MPG. Weight, sure some, but more so the speed you cruise, and how fast you accelerate.

And you might check Silverleaf, and see what the 'history of consumption' MPG is for the coach. I found that after three years, I'm now averaging 3/4 MPG more then the first owners history was. (Not much to go on here, as the coach had 12.9K miles on it when we bought it, and we've just turned 27K - so still breaking in. And breaking in fully is within the 30-40K mile range.

I also run Optilube in each tank, more for the lubrication to the lift/injector pumps, but also it has some added cetaine too. Our engines were not made to run on ULSD fuel.

Best of luck, have fun,
Smitty

04 Allure 31017 40' Tag ISL370 CAPS

Re: I need to get better fuel milage. Maybe the Heat and Hot Water

Reply #6 – March 19, 2014, 06:42:51 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 94475

Bob, I have the same setup as yours, tag, 370, 3 slides. I drive about 60-65. Pull a 2005 Jeep. We get about 6.5-8 mpg. I always check the tire pressures, before I leave on a trip. Thanks, John 03 Allure 30951

Re: I need to get better fuel milage. Maybe the Heat and Hot Water

Reply #7 – March 19, 2014, 06:43:04 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 94476

Bob, I have the same setup as yours, tag, 370. I pull a 05 Jeep. We get about 7-8 mpg. I drive at 60-65. Sometimes faster, but not often. Make sure your tires are at the right psi. But, I'm sure you've done that. Thanks, John 03 Allure 30951

Re: I need to get better fuel milage. Maybe the Heat and Hot Water

Reply #8 – March 19, 2014, 06:49:56 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 94478

In the past, when traveling at 1500 RPM with our American Coach cummins 370 (not our current coach) we always got 8 to 8.5 MPG with 20' trailer carrying 2 motorcycles. I am curious as to what the best RPMs for optimal MPG is with our '07 Tribute 260 with the cat engine.
Donna

Tribute 260 81068

Re: I need to get better fuel milage. Maybe the Heat and Hot Water

Reply #9 – March 19, 2014, 08:18:02 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 94480

I think something may be wrong, such as a leaking charge air cooler. All I can say is that my coach with a C-12 CAT weighs loaded at about 40k lbs. I tow an 8k lb vehicle. I drive exclusively at high altitude in the Rockies. I set the cruise at 68 on the interstate. I average about 7.4 mpg al told and that is with lots of 2 lane driving in the mountains. Maybe it is the smaller engine and being a Cummins.

Rich 2002 Magna

Re: I need to get better fuel milage. Maybe the Heat and Hot Water

Reply #10 – March 19, 2014, 09:08:38 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 94481

don't know which engine I have, but the guy at Cummins in Tulsa said he could upgrade to 400 HP. We decided we didn't need the extra horsepower in a short coach.
The Cummins guy told me to use Lucas Fuel Injection Treatment every 2 or 3 fillups. So far so good. We have 114,000 miles on our coach.

Lonny Livingston
'04 Allure #31065

Re: I need to get better fuel milage. Maybe the Heat and Hot Water

Reply #11 – March 19, 2014, 10:04:39 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 94483

Bob, I have an 03' 40' Allure Tag w/ Cummins 370 HP with 131,000. Over this entire I've averaged 8.0 MPG running between 62 & 67 MPH towing an 03 Honda Accord total weight 38,000 lbs.
I agree with Thomas first have a good shop pressure the CAC system for leaks and make sure your Fan Controller functioning correctly.
I had my Cummins ( CAPS) system chipped by Cummins to 400 HP, with NO noticeable performance increase. However I have from the beginning used an AFE oiled Air Filter. My most noticeable improvement came from installing a new Dynaflex Muffler and drilled out 2 3/4" of the internal 4" "Baffle" to make it nearly Full Flow. No noticeable increase in noise but improved Off the Line and a Boost Pressure increase of nearly 2 PSI....I am now seeing a 1/3 to 1/2 GPM increase.
Should you have Cummins upgrade your ECM software to the latest version, make sure your specific Tire Revolution Per Mile matching the Parameters of the Software currently in your coach and/or the upgraded version.

Thanks, Mike 03 Allure 1st Ave. #30898

Re: Fiber glass checking

Reply #12 – March 20, 2014, 12:11:06 am

Yahoo Message Number: 94484

I just got thru watching an episode of "Wheeler Dealers" on the Velocity channel, where the Boys from England restored a 64 Corvette Sting ray with checking and fiber glass cracking. The paint and body shop used a carbon fibre based product to completely cover the body of the Vette. They buffed it out and repeated the process and then repainted the Vette in Rally Red. Then they buffed the car to take out the orange peal etc. I wonder if the product would work on the CC Allures and Inspires with the checking problems. Anyone familiar with the process?
TWI 2004 Intrigue 11731

Re: I need to get better fuel milage. Maybe the Heat and Hot Water

Reply #13 – March 20, 2014, 01:01:05 am

Yahoo Message Number: 94486

Thanks for the advice. I do excelerate slow, all my tires are 105 psi. I do not know how to run in economy mode. I just put the allison in 6. How do I put the coach in economy mode? I will try cummins and check the fan controller. I didn't even know I had a charge air cooler. But I will check that as well. I can not stop thinking, I can get 8MPG in this rig. Only weights 37,200 03 Allura 40 /tag/ # 30814

Re: I need to get better fuel milage. Maybe the Heat and Hot Water

Reply #14 – March 20, 2014, 01:40:54 am

Yahoo Message Number: 94487

I don't remember which year, but friend of ours in their 2002 CC 36" Intrigue with 370 ISL and ourselves in our 42' unit traveled from Arizona to the west coast of Florida down to Tampa and then across to Daytona and finishing up in Charleston. During the trip they average over 9.3 mpg and we averaged 8.9. They didn't like to travel over 58 on two lane roads and seldom over 63 on the interstate. As we were traveling eastward with a tail wind is what I contribute to the extra mpg. When I traveled the same route last year from Arizona to Houston we averaged 8.2 but were traveling 68 mph. On the return with head winds we averaged 7.5 traveling at 72 mph. You have to realize the speed limit is 80 mph and if there is a lot of truck traffic on I-10 you had better move or be blown off the highway. My fan controller started acting up this summer returning from Oregon and my milage was in the low 7's. I always seem to have fan troubles returning from extended trips and when no one has a spare in stock. .
TWI 2004 Intrigue 11731

Re: I need to get better fuel milage. Maybe the Heat and Hot Water

Reply #15 – March 20, 2014, 09:17:05 am

Yahoo Message Number: 94490

Has anyone els heard of economy mode? I did not know such a mode excists in my country coach. I just put the allison in 6, keep the rpm between 1500 - 1800 and figured that was the best I could do. What is economy mode?

Bob

03 Allure 40 Tag / # 30814

Re: I need to get better fuel milage. Maybe the Heat and Hot Water

Reply #16 – March 20, 2014, 09:17:32 am

Yahoo Message Number: 94491

I have the same coach, About the same weight, and average the same speed. I just been between 6.2 - 6.5 mpg, and it is killing me... I am going to check the fan controller, and the air cooler for leaks. I am in charlotte NC, I would like to take the coach to cummins, or maybe I can find a good mechanic here...

Bob

Re: I need to get better fuel milage. Maybe the Heat and Hot Water

Reply #17 – March 20, 2014, 10:00:31 am

Yahoo Message Number: 94493

Bob, just my opinion, since you have a Cummins shop in Charlotte I'd use them as they have all the proper equipment and know exactly how to do the CAC pressure/leak test. They maybe have. a higher hourly fee, but maybe cheaper in the long run.
Let us know your results.

Thanks, Mike 03 Allure 1st Ave. #30898

Re: I need to get better fuel milage. Maybe the Heat and Hot Water

Reply #18 – March 20, 2014, 10:40:47 am

Yahoo Message Number: 94494

Thomas, I don't know how to send this reply off-line with this new web. But wanted to give you a tip I learned on Fan Controller diagnosis and possible fix. I've done this on mine while traveling a few weeks ago along I-10 from Fredericksburg, TX to Palm Springs.
In AM with Coach cold start engine, as you know fan should be running at Idle RPM approx. 500 RPM. With your bad Fan Controller it might be start at full HIGH RPM. Either way crawl under coach grab the bundle of wires (six pin & 2 pin wires) that enter right into the Fan Controller Electronic Casing, and WIGGLE up down, right/left keep WIGGLING, if the Fan changes speed at any time doing this there is a short or bad connection inside the casing.
Here's what I did temporally, I found the position of the wires that kept the fan at Idle RPM and Tie Wrapped them in that position, the Controller worked perfect for several hundred miles into Palm Springs, I will now consider installing a new Controller (Electronic Portion Only).

Thanks, Mike 03 Allure 1st Ave. #30898

Re: I need to get better fuel milage. Maybe the Heat and Hot Water

Reply #19 – March 20, 2014, 12:07:23 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 94495

Bob,

My Economy Mode switch is on the shift panel next to your left side. If I push "ECON" on the panel, a small RED light comes on. that is it's on position.
Dave

07 Country Coach Allure 430 #31495 12 Jeep GC Toad Mountains of So Cal

Re: I need to get better fuel milage. Maybe the Heat and Hot Water

Reply #20 – March 20, 2014, 02:33:13 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 94500

I think you would be doing great if you could get 8 mpg with that engine and weight while driving 64 mph. I average about 7.5, maybe a bit more, over 170,000 miles of every type of terrane and condition and I drive at 65 or lower.

I t would be just about impossible to judge fuel millage on one trip from the Carolinas to Florida and back. That;s only a tank plus of fuel and wind or how the coach is position while filling could result in inaccurate calculations of fuel millage.

For example. I can get more fuel in when using low pressure pumps than when filling with the truck pumps. I was told this is because of foaming but the results would be inaccurate mpg.

You may only be getting in the mid 6 MPG but you would get a much more accurate reading after keeping track of fuel for about 10,000 miles.

Too many variables for that short of a trip.

I usually get 8+ mpg when going from SC to Fl unless there is a head or side wind then it can be 7.5.

Just my opinion.

Richard Aquino

2001 Intrigue ISL370

Re: I need to get better fuel milage. Maybe the Heat and Hot Water

Reply #21 – March 20, 2014, 07:40:37 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 94511

If there is a question about if the fan is running fast or flow, I liked the "paper test" I developed for determining if the fan is running fast. Take an 8.5x11 piece of paper and hold it up to the radiator grill while the engine is running. Let go. If it falls to the ground, it is okay (fan running slow). If it sucks to the side of the grill, the fan is running fast and the engine will suffer poor gas mileage. It will run fast with the Air Conditioning is on. Turn off A/C and see if the paper falls. If it still sticks, then follow other advice in this group for locating why the fan is running at the full speed all the time. This worked with my 2002 Allure.

Herb

Group Moderator

Re: I need to get better fuel milage. Maybe the Heat and Hot Water

Reply #22 – March 21, 2014, 09:40:37 am

Yahoo Message Number: 94518

About 1000 miles back my controller stopped working. I separated the connector cleaned with electronic spray cleaner added dialectic grease

and so far so good.

Dan 2006 Allure 31348 C-9

Re: I need to get better fuel milage. Maybe the Heat and Hot Water

Reply #23 – March 21, 2014, 12:16:53 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 94519

You will improve your milage if you watch where the coach shifts to gear 6, then add 25 RPM and engage cruise control. This will be the optimum engine speed. Always use Cruise COntrol with Economy Mode on. THe computer can manage the engine better than a human. 8 MPG with an ISX is good.

Re: I need to get better fuel milage. Maybe the Heat and Hot Water

Reply #24 – March 22, 2014, 12:25:59 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 94533

Thank you for all the great advice. I am gong to check the fan controler, and look for leaks in the CAC, (Which I didn't even know I had, LoL) But on a major positive note, I did see the Economy plaquar on the Allison as you were talking about. When I push Mode, a little red dot comes on next to it. I am hopeful, and I beleave by driving with this on, (with the very helpful advice Y'all gave me) Should help me a great deal. I still will check the CAC and Fan Controller. Again, Being in Charlotte NC, Traveling to Daytona FL, and not pushing it hard, I feel I should get 8. The reason being, it is a flat run. I would expect the fuel consumption would average higher going to Gatlinburg as there are many hills on that run. On another note, when you fill up at the big rig station, just fuel on the first click, (Not wide open filling) and you will get more fuel in the tank, and less foam.
Thanks again.
Bob 03 Allure Tag / #30814

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