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Bio Diesel

Yahoo Message Number: 103763
Has anyone had  problem with bio diesel creating algae  in the fuel tank and subsequently plugging the engine fuel filter? It seems that the big fuel suppliers, Pilot,  Flying J and Loves are supplying it exclusively at many of their locations.

A Cummings representative told me that there wasn't an issue if it was not allowed to set in the tank for extended period.  Since many RVs are stationary for an extended period that might be a problem.

I've been using Power Service fuel additive, but I am not certain that this addresses the Bio issue or it is really necessary.

Tom Ruster

04 Inspire 51017

Re: Bio Diesel

Reply #1
Yahoo Message Number: 103766
That's why I carry 3 primary filters and two secondary filters.  And a gallon of clean diesel to fill the filters upon installation.  Its just the way things are now days.  And Cummins says no fuel additives.  TWI 2004 intrigue 11731

Re: Bio Diesel

Reply #2
Yahoo Message Number: 103767
Experienced just that on a recent trip. Loss of performance in general, slowing on grades, brief check engine warning under load and finally a complete stall in the middle of an intersection. Had the fuel filters changed (which showed signs of the sludge) and went quickly on our way. All symptoms disappeared. On suggestion of technician, will be using a fuel additive going forward. "The nature of the beast" I presume.

Jerry & Brenda Azzara

'99 Intrigue Chefs Delite
#10702


See you down the road  :D

"rusters@... [Country-Coach-Owners]"  wrote:

Has anyone had  problem with bio diesel creating algae  in the fuel tank and subsequently plugging the engine fuel filter? It seems that the big fuel suppliers, Pilot,  Flying J and Loves are supplying it exclusively at many of their locations.

A Cummings representative told me that there wasn't an issue if it was not allowed to set in the tank for extended period.  Since many RVs are stationary for an extended period that might be a problem.

I've been using Power Service fuel additive, but I am not certain that this addresses the Bio issue or it is really necessary.

Tom Ruster

04 Inspire 51017

Re: Bio Diesel

Reply #3
Yahoo Message Number: 103770
Tom, Power Service makes 2 additive products, one especially for alge.....Skip 2002 Intrigue #11329

Re: Bio Diesel

Reply #4
Yahoo Message Number: 103773
Hi Yes I had trouble with Bio Diesel and I try to avoid it at all costs. It may be cheaper to buy but in the long run the cost of a tow and or changing filters prematurely is  NOT  worth it. I also carry extra fuel and water separator filters with a couple of gallons of spare diesel fuel to fill them. It's not rocket science to change filters just fill them with clean fuel to the very top before you put them back on, I also carry a fuel filter wrench that you can easily and not expensively obtain at a Tractor supply/Fleet Farm/ Truck stop . $200.00 plus dollars for a service tech to rescue you on the side of the road is not worth a couple of pennies savings on fuel purchases. If you can't avoid a bio fuel purchase, buy a small amount to get you to another station.

Martin Cook

2003 Magna Resorter

Re: Bio Diesel

Reply #5
Yahoo Message Number: 103774
Earlier this year I visited the Oregon Coast. I filled up at the Fred Meyer fuel station. I commented to the attendant that the price at the Safeway station was less. I was told that the lower price was due to a higher percentage of Bio Diesel. He said on the coast in Oregon it can be as high as 20% but that Fred Meyer has a max of 5% mix.
So, I guess it pays to ask if is not clearly stated on the signage.
Does anyone else know more about this than the comment that I got from the attendant? Is this variance true in other locations? Daron Hairabedian, '98 Allure 30226

Re: Bio Diesel [1 Attachment]

Reply #6
Yahoo Message Number: 103776
:D

I have never used Bio Diesel nor do I intend to! I have enough problems with these danged things without taking chances on some kitchen experiment. As a matter of fact I have quit using ethanol blends in my gasoline powered equipment .    Before I started this, I would spend two days every spring cleaning carbs despite putting stabilizers and other additives. Since I changed to non ethanol, I haven't cleaned one carburetor.;

Re: Bio Diesel

Reply #7
Yahoo Message Number: 103777
Tom,
Bio-diesel is all you can get in beautiful California these days (Imagine that). The pump may not show it but it's a good guess it's there and as high as 20% (B-20). Not only is it more hospitable than pure diesel to algae it's also a much better cleaner and will loosen the crud in you fuel tank and run it through your filters. That's what's causing the filters to clog. This problem should clear itself after a few fillings.

 If you plan to leave your coach stationary for 3 months or more an additive for algae is a must with Bio-diesel. Of course there are the other negatives such as reduced power and reduced mileage. I always add about an once of BioBor JF with each fill up. Seems to be doing the job as I have had no problems so far. CA has had Bio-diesel for a few years now.

By the way. Cummins only approves engines manufactured after 2002 to 20% Bio-diesel. Earlier engine are not approved for any!!

Re: Bio Diesel

Reply #8
Yahoo Message Number: 103778
Tom, I use and recommend FPPF Additive Products. http://www.fppf.com for the Bio-Diesel problems I use their Super Fuel Stabilizer as recommended by their chief chemist Peter Guerra, their are articles on their website that are very informative. For Algae I use their product KILLEM. I use the Stabilizer on every fill up. Their 32 oz bottle is around $12 to $15 dollars and handles 500 gallons of fuel or 0.064 Oz/Gal. so an 80 Gal. fill up would be 5.12 Oz. They don't recommend KILLEM for every fill up, they say to treat the Algae for a couple of fill-ups and it should be dead. Mixing their products is no problem.

Thanks, Mike 03 Allure 1st Ave. #30898, 145,000 mi.

Re: Bio Diesel

Reply #9
Yahoo Message Number: 103779
We just finished an 11 state 5 month trip, that took us thru Kansas, Nebraska, and South Dakota - the first tank of fuel in Kansas, was 20% ethanol. Same in Nebraska and in Sioux Falls area of South Dakota. Topped off in Rapid City, about 1/2 a tank, with 5% ethanol. Then dropping into Cody, we filled up with 20% ethanol again. This was over a period of about three weeks.

We had combinations of hot humid days in Sioux Falls, and then periods of moderately warm days and cold nights when we go to Cody - with variations in between.

Our HydroHot was acting up, and as I was working my way thru this, some asked if I had made recent dramatic changes to fuel. When I mentioned all of the tanks with ethanol in the mix, over such a short period, their first thought was that the ethanol had 'cleaned the tanks/fuel lines'. Which probably partially clogged the small fuel filter on the HydroHot. When I mentioned the moderately warm (mid 70's in the day), and cold (low 30's overnight), as well as a tank only half full - the high probability of condensation build up too.

An inspection of the fuel drained from the primary fuel filter, indicated what looked to me as the start of algae. (Certainly was different looking then anything I had seen before. Not the heavy signs of full blown algae, the black little globs that I'd read about form others.)

Went into town, bought a Power Services Diesel Kleen product to handle both moisture and algae. I shocked/spiked (believe that was the buzzword) the tank, which was still half full. Waited 24 hours, started the engine, the generator and the HydroHot and let them run for 20 minutes. Stopped the engine, changed the primary and secondary fuel filters. Drove 20 miles into town, now outside of Jackson Hole, and topped off the tank, again shocking/spiking the tank. No notification of ethanol at the pump, and the attendant said that they did not know if the diesel included ethanol or not. Back to the campground, and I changed the generator and HrdoHot fuel filters. And, I still had two primary and one secondary fuel filters in my bays for the engine. Just in case they were needed.

I feel I dodged the bullet on a possible fuel starvation shutdown while traveling, while on the mountain roads of this region.

And, I now know to watch and try to avoid and certainly minimize the ethanol while buying fuel.

I hear that a benefit of biodiesel is extra lubricity. But I run Optilube Summer Blend in each tank as it is.

Understand the lobbying by the farmers made this a mandatory part of our lives. And sad, especially in the drought regions of the US, including California, that I believe I read 19 gallons of water was required to process 1 gallon of ethanol. And of course, feed for livestock has gone up as well, due to supply and demand.

But sure not surprised, after the billions of dollars of impact to the US economy of doing a 'hard cutover' to ULSD, vs the recommended 15 year cutover of offering both ULSD and Type 2 diesel to support the hundreds of millions diesel engines on the road. Less MPG, so more money out of pocket, and less available to spend elsewhere in the economy. And, loss of lives when fuel lines to generators and or Aqua/Hydro Hots started to leak due to the ULSD not being compatible with the hose compounds. So who would care about ethanol additive impacting us once again, and yep, less MPG again.

Change is not something to be feared. Reasonably applied changes should be embraced. But arbitrary and mandatory abrupt change - should be a last resort.

Long winded response, to say that I did have problems with my first known exposure to multiple tanks of ethonol added to diesel.

Best to all,

Smitty

04 Allure 31017
04 Allure Sold to a nice new owner! Now enjoying a 07 Magna Rembrandt 45' ISX600 #6775
"We're ONDROAD for THEJRNY!" (Toad and Coach license plates, say Hi if you see us!)

Re: Bio Diesel

Reply #10
Yahoo Message Number: 103780
I am a strong believer in adding a biocide to my RV diesel fuel at regular intervals. I am unaware of any negatives and only had to have a fuel filter clogged with algae once to make the point. Some stabilizers have a biocide in them, but you have to look for it. Biobor JF is my favorite. I use a separate stabilizer in addition.

Jeff Thurston

'03/4 Intrigue 11630

Re: Bio Diesel

Reply #11
Yahoo Message Number: 103783
Smitty on your trip what type of fuel stations did you stop at truck stops or gas stations or both?

Jim 42' ALLURE 2006 #31936
STANWOOD, WASHINTON


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Re: Bio Diesel

Reply #12
Yahoo Message Number: 103785
I suspect he means Bio Diesel, with corn oil, not ethanol.
 While all the experts here like to bash bio diesel. Before you do remember  the number  of busses, city delivery trucks, over the road class 8 trucks,  construction equipment, farm equipment, etc that use it and do not lose any  sleep or use any additive.
 Before you talk about how bad the fuel mileage is go look up the BTUs per  gallon of each.

Mikee


Re: Bio Diesel

Reply #14
Yahoo Message Number: 103792
It was a mix of stations, usually try to get a truck stop as the fuel turns over faster.

And yeah Mikee, you were right that I was wrong when I used the word ethanol...

My MPG was from measured usage, and possible other variables were in the mix, 3-4 fuel top off's (usually fill up at half tank, occasional down to 1/3 before top off). But, as I was working thru my problem, I posted for help here and on IRV2, received many PM's that many had had problems from the first several tanks of Bio Diesel 'cleaning the tanks and the lines'. Lower MPG was also mentioned by many.

I do see the positive of added lubrication, but as I use Optilube I don't need this. And, I also now add Biobor JF as extra  insurance.

I will admit, I was on a bit of rant on my post:)! But, after seeing the impact of not well thought out major changes un fuel, with disregard to input from the expertise industry suggesting the phased rollout, due primarily to the impact to the trucking industry - passed onto us, via higher transportation costs. So, I do get riled up about these things:)!

Best to all,

Smitty
04 Allure Sold to a nice new owner! Now enjoying a 07 Magna Rembrandt 45' ISX600 #6775
"We're ONDROAD for THEJRNY!" (Toad and Coach license plates, say Hi if you see us!)

Re: Bio Diesel

Reply #15
Yahoo Message Number: 103818
I don't think the plugged fuel filter is from algae. The bio diesel is a good cleaner and will clean your whole fuel system,  which can plug filters IMO.  I've used bio diesel and like it because engine seems to  runs smoother and quieter.  I used it for years when available and even paid more for it when it used to be more expensive.  I haven't had a filter totally plugged yet,  but carry spares and keep watching the glass bowl for containments.  I guess bio diesel is more (?) tolerant to algae growth, but I use Algae-X which seems to do a good job in cleaning/preventing algae growth.

Larry 03 Allure 30856

Re: Bio Diesel

Reply #16
Yahoo Message Number: 103824
Larry,

I know of a glass bowl for water in the rear engine area.  But I do not remember a glass bowl for the fuel.
Maybe I just have not looked for something like that.  Is it close or attached to the large fuel filters?

I usually fuel up at Flying J and Is all their fuel "BIO DIESEL"?

My coach will be sitting for 2 months and I'm wondering if I need to put this Algae stop stuff in the fuel tank.  If I do, do I need to drive around a while to get it mixed in?

I guess I have been lucky so far and not had any problems with the fuel and the coach sitting.

Dave
07  Country Coach Allure 430 #31495
12 Jeep GC Toad
Mountains of So Cal and
Henderson, Nev
Dave & Jodi
2007 CC Allure 40’ Tag #31495
2012 Jeep GC
Big Bear Lake, Ca & Henderson, Nev

Re: Bio Diesel

Reply #17
Yahoo Message Number: 103831
Dave,  that's (water separater)  is the one I'm talking about.  I can sometimes see containments and darker/discoloration.

Larry