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Composite Oil Pan Leak

Yahoo Message Number: 102948
My 2004 Allure with ISL 400 HP Cummins has the composite oil pan with 32 isolator bolts. It has a history of leaks. The rubber pieces on the pan bolts split and an oil leak appears. I have read that the bolt holes are blind, so even if a bolt were removed a leak should not come from above, and since the pan gasket encircles the bolt hole there should be no leak there either unless the pan gasket is leaking.

My Cummins Coach Care facility says mine is the first they have seen leak. I have a friend on this forum who had terrible oil leaks from his pan when new. Has anyone else on this forum had oil leaks with the composite pan?

The last two pan removals and regasketings have failed at Cummins within a year and to their credit they do cover the next repair. Now it has failed and I need the third repair. Cummins says the technical instructions says to use silicone gasket sealer, but they say that does not work for them, so they use some other kind of sealer that is white. Any opinions on this?

George Harper
04 Allure 31093
Rome, GA

Re: Composite Oil Pan Leak

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 102949
hi george

i have the same coach as yours but my oil pan cracked  and also  leaking around the bolts, the cummins dealer put the replacement pan on, but is  was a little over a $1000. the replaced the pan with a steel one , spacer above  the pan and the pick up tube. no more leaks.

mike d

2004 allure 31021

Re: Composite Oil Pan Leak

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 102950
I have had leaks with my composite oil pan also. It appeared to be the bolts so I had the gaskets replaced and had it re-torqued. Refilled pan then found a Crack in the pan from some impact.?? Replaced pan re installed and seem to be dry for the last two months.


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Re: Composite Oil Pan Leak

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 102951
My composite oil pan leaks around the bolts also. I have not done anything about it yet. Our ISL 400 hangs really low to the ground. I am considering a steel replacement pan. I read somewhere that you can no longer use the remote oil storage tank with the steel pan because  of fitting issues near the pan drain.
Does anyone have part numbers for all the parts needed to replace the composite pan with a steel one?

Norm

04  Intrigue 11773  ISL400

Re: Composite Oil Pan Leak

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 102952
If I remember correctly the isolator bolts can and will cause this if they  collapse slightly, or are the wrong length. I believe Cummins recommends  changing the isolator bolts with each removal.

Mikee

Re: Composite Oil Pan Leak

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 102953
My cummins composite oil pan leaked also. I finally had it replaced with a metal one at cummins I'm San Bernardino Ca.  Cost about $1500. Parts about $800.  Most cummins dealers have kits. Had it back same day.
Glen coulter 2003 intrigue.

Re: Composite Oil Pan Leak

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 102954

Mike, the steel pan parts are around $1,000, so what about the labor?

George Harper
04 Allure 31093

Re: Composite Oil Pan Leak

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 102955
Quote
Does anyone have part numbers for all the parts needed to replace the composite pan with a steel one?

Norm

04 Intrigue 11773 ISL400

Norm, see attachment for all the part numbers.

George Harper
04 Alllure 31093
Rome, GA

Re: Composite Oil Pan Leak

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 102956

Mikee, how would a bolt leak? The pan gasket surrounds the hole, and I read on another forum that a guy with this problem was told by Cummins that the bolt hole is blind.

George Harper
04 Allure 31093

Re: Composite Oil Pan Leak

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 102957
The oil seeps into the area where the bolts are thru the pan gaskets if the  isolator is  weak or slightly collapsed, then it drips out thru the  isolator. Between the bolt and isolator

Mike

Re: Composite Oil Pan Leak

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 102959
Mike

In my case I have a pretty fresh pan gasket repair. There are 32 isolator bolts and one is leaking. Only that one has a split rubber isolator. So, that seems like a very strong case for the rubber isolator to be acting as an oil seal. However, I don't see it assuming that the hole is blind (does not open into the interior oil pan area). The pan gaskets surround the bolt hole, so wouldn't the pan gasket have to be leaking for oil to reach the bolt?

I ought to be able to get a clear answer from Cummins to the simple question of whether or not oil would leak where a bolt has been removed but not yet. If the answer is yes, all I have to do is replace the bolt. If the answer is no, I have to ask that the pan gaskets be replaced for the third time.

George Harper
04 Allure 31093
Rome, GA

Re: Composite Oil Pan Leak

Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 102960
Just change that one isolator. If only one is leaking and the rest of the  pan is not, just change that one. Debating about why it can leak or can it leak  will not solve the issue. You know it can leak because it is.

Mikee

Re: Composite Oil Pan Leak

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 102962
I  know that one split bolt that is leaking seems to be the obvious culprit, but It could be coincidental. That is why it is good to understand how it is engineered to work.

I finally have an answer from Cummins. My shop spoke with their DFSE (district field service engineer). He says that the bolt holes are blind and even with the bolt removed, it won't leak providing the pan gasket is good. He also said the pan gasket has rubber around the bolt holes, and the rubber pieces may not have been positioned right or gotten pinched when my last pan repair was done.

So, I can't fix the problem by replacing the bolt. I'm going back to the shop and get a steel pan which I don't expect to have any problems from. There won't be any additional labor for that.

George Harper
04 Allure 31093
Rome, GA

Re: Composite Oil Pan Leak

Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 102963
Do as you desire. But you may be getting bad info.  The composite pan  bolts are spaced the way they are because they need all of them. If they could  get by with less they would. When one is not tight enough or has a failed  isolator the pan will sag at that location. That sagging usually creates a leak.  why not swap that isolator with another one and see if the leak moves. That  should take about 5 minutes, maybe saving a larger expense.

Mikee

Re: Composite Oil Pan Leak

Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 102976
Thanks George for the information. Looks like it is part of an invoice. If you had the work done on your ISL400did it still allow use of the remote oil fill tank?

Norm p4 Intrigue11773

Re: Composite Oil Pan Leak

Reply #15 –
Yahoo Message Number: 102984
That's a good idea, Mikee, to swap bolts and see if the leak moves. However, I don't think I can do that because I would have to clean the oil off and Cummins might say their repair did not fail. So, I better not disturb the crime scene.

Note the thick arched pan bracing between the bolts. Also the arches are braced again @ 90 degrees. As close together as these bolts are, I don't see the pan sagging with one bolt removed.

I do find it hard to believe, but Cummins says these rubber pieces on the bolts are noise isolators. I always thought they were vibration isolators to protect the composite pan from cracking.

George Harper
04 Allure 3193
Rome, GA
Quote
Do as you desire. But you may be getting bad info.  The composite pan bolts are spaced the way they are because they need all of them. If they could get by with less they would. When one is not tight enough or has a failed isolator the pan will sag at that location. That sagging usually creates a leak. why not swap that isolator with another one and see if the leak moves. That should take about 5 minutes, maybe saving a larger expense.

Mikee

Re: Composite Oil Pan Leak

Reply #16 –
Yahoo Message Number: 102987
Norm, the steel pan does accommodate a remote oil fill. See pic.

George Harper
04 Allure 31093
Rome, GA

Quote
Thanks George for the information. Looks like it is part of an invoice. If you had the work done on your ISL400did it still allow use of the remote oil fill tank?

Norm p4 Intrigue11773

Re: Composite Oil Pan Leak [1 Attachment]

Reply #17 –
Yahoo Message Number: 102997
Having had a steel oil pan installed 6 years ago on our 400 ISL to replace the damaged composite OEM I can say that we do have the remote oil fill feature. It has functioned as expected and without issue since. I hope that feature would still be available today.

Jeff Thurston

'03 Intrigue 42 Ovation 11630
Gilford, NH.