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Navigator Towing

Yahoo Message Number: 7805
Hi Kevin,

My brother in law is on his third Ford SUV being towed behind his CC Concept. On all three he has used the Roadmaster driveshaft disconnect product. For that matter, the disconnect, base plate and tow bar is all by Roadmaster. He is very happy with the products and the disconnect route is a sure thing. I am sure Roadmaster will head you in the right direction.

Fred Sage 2001 CC Magna # 5983; 1999 CR-V w/ Blue Ox

Navigator Towing

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 7817
Kevin,

The tow system my brother in law uses on his Expedition was not one stop shopping. The driveshaft disconnect is a Remco product, while the base plate and related equipment came from Roadmaster. Two different companies to accomplish the four wheels down.

Fred

towing

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 7839
Okay...set me straight. We know the manufactures (except Prevost) must list the CCC....cargo carrying capacity...in every coach. This is what the chasis is designed to carry after allowing for full fuel, water, lp and 154 pounds per person based on sleeping capacity. That number is as low as 2000lbs and as high as 4000-5000 lbs depending on the coach. As an aside, a recent review in Motor Home of a million dollar Newell had a CCC of LESS than 1000 lbs. So it doesn't necessarily follow big coach...big engine...big ccc. Now, how does this number (ccc) relate to the dragging weight of the tow vechile.
What about gross combimed weight? Joe Cronin Magna Jeep GC

Re: towing

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 7840
Gross Combined (GCWR) weight less Gross Vehicle (GVWR) weight = maximum toad weight. GCWR and GVWR are fixed numbers. CCC is a variable calculated by subtracting the "wet" weight and hitch tongue weight from the Gross Vehicle weight leaving CCC.

Dave

Re: towing

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 7841
Where would one find the GCWR on an Intrigue? It's not on the sticker by the

driver nor is on the bath cabinet door. The sticker does have a note to deduct the towed 'tongue weight' from the CCC.

Jim

Re: towing

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 7844
Dave:

You had me looking again with the light on this time .

My sticker has only the GVWR and CCC.

No GCWR listed.
Jim

Re: towing

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 7845
Ha! Next you'll be confessing you had to get your reading glasses!
Interesting, mine shows GVWR, GCWR, Unloaded Vehicle Weight, and NCC (as opposed to CCC), plus a water rating of 105 gal or 800+ lbs. It also reminds you to subtract the tongue weight.
Dave

towing

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 7846
This string has thrown around a lot of letters and generalizations...but Dave, you could do us a favor by running the actual numbers for a real example. How about it?

Re: towing

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 7847
No problem. First thing tomorrow I'll go out, write everything down, and give a report.
Dave

Re: towing (w/numbers)

Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 7850
From my '98 Allure:

GVWR = 30,000
GCWR = 36,000

Leaving a towing capacity of 6,000 (so my 3200# Wrangler is OK).

UVW (unloaded vehicle weight) = 24982 NCC (Net Carrying Capacity) = 5018

Note that (GVWR - UVW) = NCC

There is an additional label indicating the vehicle is rated to carry 106 gallons of water or 883 lbs.

The problem with the NCC rating is that it does not include dealer options, water, lp, or fuel. CCC, or Cargo Carrying Capacity includes all of these "wet" items. My esitmate is that the wet items, water, fuel, and lp add around 2000 lbs so I believe I am looking at a the following:

NCC - ("wet items" + hitch tongue weight) = CCC or

5018 - (2000 + 0) = CCC
5018 - 2000 = 3018

which means I can carry 3018 lbs of people and stuff. If I didn't tow
4-down I would have included the tongue weight of the trailer.

Dave

Re: towing

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 7856
Hi CC members,

As a CC wanna-be, soon to purchase a 2004 Allure, I am also looking at my toad requirements as well. My existing vehicle (2003 Infiniti QX4) cannot be towed (except

for putting it on a trailer -- bringing the overall weight to 8000 lbs) ) so I have also been

shopping for a toad. The ' 04 Allure has a 10,000 lb tow package but as I have been

reading all recent email about GCWR and GVWR, I am appreciating more and more that lighter is better, even if the coach can pull 10,000 lbs.
So I am looking at a group of vehicles that seem to be great candidates as toads

(and I know there are lots of others but I have limited my search to mid-size SUVs):
1. Jeep Cherokee (Ladero or Limited) -- 4x4, flat towable, transfer case in neutral,

transmission in neutral, GVWR = approx. 4900 lbs.
Issues: Reliability seems to be the hot button -- read/hear lots of horror stories.

Good off-road capability, fairly nice ride in city or highways. Jeep Liberty not

evaluated as yet but could be a very nice candidate as well.

2. Nissan Xterra, 4x4 flat towable -- transfer case in 2H, transmission in neutral.

GVWR = approx. 3700 lbs. Great off-road capability. Firmer ride in city or highways

compared to Jeep. Also, while towable, engine must be started every 500 miles

or so to get the oil circulating through engine and drive train.

3. Saturn Vue, 4x4 6 cyl. flat towable -- but with a 65 mph limit (dealer not exactly

certain as to why 65 mph --- possibly due to reasons of a limited responsibility

in their literature and not so much a mechanical issue ??). GVWR = approx. 3600 lbs.

Best mpg of the three -- 20 / 28.

4. Honda CRV and Subaru Forester -- not as yet evaluated.

Opinions/comments appreciated.

I also wanted to say Thanks for allowing a CC wanna-be to take part on this group.

What I learned just in the past two weeks of reading email has been invaluable ---

you can't buy information like this.

cheers,

Ben Catanzaro

Re: towing

Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 7857
A couple of notes - The Jeep family is towable with any transmission.
The Vue with only a certain auto transmission, the Xterra needs a driveshaft disconnect on the rear shaft if it's an automatic transmission but the stick 4x4 is fine, you might want to add Honda Pilot (Accura MDX) to your list as they are OK 4-down.

Dave

Re: towing

Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 7858
Another point: Jeep vechicles have a very poor reliability/incidence of repair record. Hondas are almost bulletproof.

Re: towing

Reply #15 –
Yahoo Message Number: 7859
Quote
4. Honda CRV and Subaru Forester -- not as yet evaluated.
Opinions/comments appreciated.
One of our two toads is a '98 Subaru Forester "L" (the other is an '89 Acura Integra). The Forester, as all new stick-shift Subarus, is flat towable ( see http://www.drive.subaru.com/Towing.html ). Towed mileage doesn't accrue, there's no speed or distance limit, and the car weighs ~3,100 lbs.
One new Forester (the XT?) has the WRX's turbo engine. Although I'm a big Honda fan, I chose the Forester for a few good reasons, including: crash ratings are second to none; reliability (check Consumer Reports) is outstanding; no spare tire on the hatch (can block your rearward vision and pushes the hatch in if you inadvertently back into a pole, for example); more horsepower/torque than the CR-V (not a problem in the newer models).
If the Forester wasn't available, I wouldn't hesitate to buy a CR-V.
We've driven our Forester many miles off-road, by the way, and it does very well, although it doesn't have the ground clearance or dual-range transmission of a "real" 4WD vehicle. On the other hand, the Forester rides like a car, not a truck, and is stable enough on the highway that it doesn't have the warning label typically affixed to 4WD vehicles. Also, the Forester's all-wheel-drive system is constantly "on," providing great traction whether on dry, wet, or dirt/snow-covered road. If you don't care for the Forester, Subaru makes other vehicles including the Legacy, Outback, Outback Sport, WRX and WRX ST-i, All of 'em all-wheel-drive as standard equipment.

Dick (& Geri) Campagna
'98 36' Intrigue #10571
Mfd: 11/97

Re: towing

Reply #16 –
Yahoo Message Number: 7860
Ben:

I tow a 2003 Jeep Liberty, 4 wheels down and have no problems, just put the transfer case in neutral, transmission in Park and it just follows me everywhere. I have also had no problems with the Jeep itself. Great off road, a bit noisy on highways.
As for the ride, it is actually better than I thought it would be. The big factor here is my wife who has a real battle with motion sickness, for example when we had our boat, she would be sick when I took in three of the four mooring lines. I was going to rename it the Vomit Comet.
While the Liberty does weigh in around 4000lbs, I only notice it on those long uphill grades.

Chuck Penque

2003 Intrigue 11673
Tag Axle and 400HP

Re: towing

Reply #17 –
Yahoo Message Number: 7861
Have been towing driving a used GC limited for two years 10,000 miles (73,000 odometer miles). No mechanical problems yet. Compared to Honda or Acura, is truly off road capable vehicle if that is of interest.

Re: towing

Reply #18 –
Yahoo Message Number: 7862
Ben, my experience with a 2000 Jeep Grd. Cher. has been excellent. It is now over three years old with 44,000 mi showing and probably 30,000 towed miles. The ONLY problem I have had with this vehicle is warping brake rotors which I finally just learned to live with after a couple of replacements and a couple of re-surfacings. The ride in my Jeep is superior to my wife's Lincoln Navigator. I don't hesitate to recommend the Jeep G C.

Walt Rothermel
03Allure30811

Re: towing

Reply #19 –
Yahoo Message Number: 7865
Is anybody towing a TrailBlazer? How does the ride compare with the Jeep GC?

Ree

Re: towing

Reply #20 –
Yahoo Message Number: 7868
Hi Ben,

You can add the GMC Envoy or Yukon, and their Chevy equiv. to your list, just switch the trans to freewheeling and you are good to go.

Bill Harris

03 Allure 1st Ave 30912
03 GMC Envoy tow
Datastorm

Re: towing

Reply #21 –
Yahoo Message Number: 7871
Walt,

I have friends who own 2000 Jeep G.C and they experienced the same brake problem you had, however they got theirs corrected. This is a know problem to Jeep and they have a heaver replacement rotor that corrects the problem.
For what its worth I own a 1993 Jeep G.C. with 130,000 miles on it and have had no problems with it and it is still running strong.

Vaughn

1999 Intrigue 10809

Re: towing

Reply #22 –
Yahoo Message Number: 7883
Just a note to add my $0.02.

Nanc and I tow our 2001 Jeep GC, it is our 3rd Jeep. It has 34K on the odometer and has been towed an additional 64K miles. It performs great! Lots of room(for a midsized SUV) We have only one problem with it. We have been rear ended three times (once at a stop sign and twice at stoplights - wonder why we left the Bay area?). We survived with minor injuries.

Yes, it is heaver than I'd like to pull at 4500+ lbs. The real reason we have this Jeep is something I hope everyone thinks of with their vehicles. On March 20, 2000 while I was stopped in traffic in my 2000 Jeep Cherokee I was rear ended by a careless person in a Ford F250 diesel pickup. She hit me doing 60+ mph and nearly paralyzed me permanently. When I was in the emergency room being treated for my injuries, my attending physician told me that my vehilce was the only reason I was alive. He told me that had I been driving the typical Bay area vehicle (high end cars, names omitted to avoid the car wars) he would have been fitting me for a permanent body bag. He told me he will only drive a Jeep due to his ER experiences.
So, be careful what you put between your delicate body and the other vehicles. You don't have to be in the wrong to be in an accident, you just have to be there...

I'll stick with my third problem free Jeep.

Regards,
Neil Tucker
Intrigue 11677

BJCatanzaro wrote:

Re: towing

Reply #23 –
Yahoo Message Number: 7885
Please note:  Starting in 2004 the rate has been increased to $0.03 to compensate for the weak dollar. GGG
 
We do not miss silicon valley either, but still have to put up with 80 and 680 for several miles when heading out.
 
Happy New Year to all.
 
David & Karen CA.

Re: towing

Reply #24 –
Yahoo Message Number: 7886
Chuck,

How ndo you like the liberty.
I'm looking for a new toad.

I have an old Geo Metro now and folks are starting to laugh at me so its time for a change, the Metro is great on gas and with 3 cyls. it really helps to push the Intrigue up those hills.
Gary

Hope tp meet you, are you going to the March ralley? see you there