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Long life antifreeze

Yahoo Message Number: 106808
I am going to flush my green antifreeze and replace it with long life coolant. I asked the Cummins parts guy for the long life antifreeze and he asked what engine I had. I told him it was an 04 8.9 liter. He said that engine will use the blue colored fluid instead of the red. I questioned him and was told the pre emission control engine (no EGR valve) uses the blue.
I would appreciate any comments from the board regarding this. I thought you always used the red antifreeze.

Norm 04 Intrigue #11773

Re: Long life antifreeze

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 106810
Norm.........Rather than flush out your current anti freeze, Why don't you consider converting it to an Organic Acid Technology (OAT) anti freeze. Not only will it save you from dumping out many gallons of good coolant, it will allow you to get away from the hassle of regularly checking your current coolant for proper Ph levels in order to avoid metal loss of your cylinder wet liners because of cavitation.

Dave Trotter

01 Intrigue 11215

Re: Long life antifreeze

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 106812
Dave,

I thought that was what I was putting in with the new long life antifreeze. I guess I need to do more research.

Norm

04 Intrigue #11773

Re: Long life antifreeze

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 106813
Dave,

If you don't remove the old coolant in some matter how do you get the "OAT" in place of.. reading a little, it says it should be mixed with a mixer of 50 percent of distilled water. Just curious...

Dave


07 Country Coach Allure 430 #31495 12 Jeep GC Toad

Mountains of So Cal and
Henderson, Nev

From: "Dave Trotter cdabode@... [Country-Coach-Owners]" To: Country-Coach-Owners@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2016 9:43 AM Subject: Re: [Country-Coach-Owners] Long life antifreeze

Norm.........Rather than flush out your current anti freeze, Why don't you consider converting it to an Organic Acid Technology (OAT) anti freeze. Not only will it save you from dumping out many gallons of good coolant, it will allow you to get away from the hassle of regularly checking your current coolant for proper Ph levels in order to avoid metal loss of your cylinder wet liners because of cavitation.

Dave Trotter

01 Intrigue 11215
Dave & Jodi
2007 CC Allure 40’ Tag #31495
2012 Jeep GC
Big Bear Lake, Ca & Henderson, Nev

Re: Long life antifreeze

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 106814
I have been using the red OAT for 7 or 8 years now, since I had the issue with the radiator failing. This years is only second time I have add a supplement to keep the PH factor correct. I have had the chemistry checked every year. When I lost one of the miniature hoses 3 years ago the coolant was replaced. I had been using the Blu coolant up until losing the radiator, but Cummins calling center recommended red Oat, because of my severe climate and extreme heat in the South West. TWI 2004 Intrigue 11731 ISL 400

Re: Long life antifreeze

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 106815
Thanks for all of the replys.

We spend a lot of time in very hot weather also. I am going to take the blue stuff back and get the red OAT coolant.

Norm 04 #11773

Re: Long life antifreeze

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 106816
Final Charge Global ELC 50/50 is what I used. It's made by Peak.

The converter is sold separately from the coolant.

The converter is added to the existing HEALTHY 50/50 coolant system. The amount of converter needed is based on the amount of coolant to be treated. If a system would require 2 gallons of converter, let's say, then you would only need to drain off 2 gallons of your existing coolant to make room for the addition of the converter. The usage tables are printed on the container.

It turns your existing coolant into an OAT ELC coolant, so no more Ph testing or addition of SCA's to keep from ruining your cylinder liners and causing a $30k repair bill.

Once the conversion is made, just keep the system topped up with Global Final Charge 50/50.

If your current coolant is not up to snuff for proper Ph levels, then that needs to be corrected first.

Here is a link to Peak's website FAQ page:  http://www.peakhd.com/product-lines/final-charge/faq/

Here's  a link to an old CC owners forum on the topic:  http://www.countrycoachforums.com/index.php?topic=12911.0

Here's a site that explains wet liner cavitation:  http://esource.alstribology.com/WB082_August2015/Coolant%20Formulation.html

Mikee might be able to add his 2 cents of real 'hands-on' experience to this sometimes confusing subject.

Hope this helps.

Dave Trotter

01 Intrigue 11215

Re: Long life antifreeze

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 106817
Here is a Q&A regarding the conversion liquid from Peak's website: Q: My truck is using a conventional coolant, and I would like to change to FINAL CHARGE GLOBAL Coolant/Antifreeze. How do I convert my truck?

A: With the FINAL CHARGE GLOBAL Extended Life Coolant Fleet Conversion Program, you can convert a truck using conventional or fully formulated coolants to FINAL CHARGE GLOBAL Coolant/Antifreeze without having to drain, flush and refill the cooling system. At the center of this program is FINAL CHARGE GLOBAL Converter. FINAL CHARGE GLOBAL Converter is formulated with a special blend of FINAL CHARGE GLOBAL Coolant/Antifreeze's patented Organic Acid Technology (OAT) inhibitors with Contamination Tolerant Additives. A one-time dose of FINAL CHARGE GLOBAL Converter is specifically formulated to convert properly maintained cooling systems using conventional or fully formulated coolants meeting ASTM D-4985, ASTM D-6210 or TMC RP-329 to FINAL CHARGE GLOBAL Coolant/Antifreeze's patented formula.

Re: Long life antifreeze

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 106822
On another note, what should the PH reading be on these coaches? I have the 500 ISM Cummins. Thanks in advance!

Dennis 09 Allure 470

Re: Long life antifreeze

Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 106827
Ok, I would like to jump as i have some questions.

Back in 2013, I had a coolant hose that needed to be replaced, since up to last month I had been adding Prestone (green 50/50). Last month a radiator (Aluminum) leak was discovered and a PH test was conducted and the PH tested "good" Replaced the radiator with a copper/steel type. The coolant that was used is red (50/50). So here comments/questions.

I was under the assumption that the coolant system was closed, so the coolant would be good like forever.

Now I am concerned that I have replaced the coolant with something thats good however, maybe not the best. Also, not sure using a blue coolant is the way to go or is blue coolant just like buying extra, extra virgin oil. Strictly a personal preference.

Would like to thank all of you in advance, this is way above my pay grade.

Wally & Elta Mae

2007Allure 470 #31535

Re: Long life antifreeze

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 106834
I recently flushed and replaced the standard heavy duty green coolant in my C12. I Fleetguard Restore Plus acid cleaner. It took many hundreds of gallons and a whole day to fully clean out the system. I also replaced the thermostat which was original. I put in Rotella ELC (red color) which is CAT C-1 approved and can be purchased at Tractor Supply for $15 a gallon full strength not 50/50. It is the best thing I ever did for this engine. The engine never overheated but it now runs 10 degrees cooler, the transmission even cooler than that. The way the Temps go up and down has changed dramatically. I don't know if it was the cleaning, the thermostat or the ELC or a combination of the three.
Rich 2002 Msgna

Re: Long life antifreeze

Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 106836
Wally I had the blue stuff and when my radiator went out and I changed over to a copper core radiator I went to the long life red. It's the best to protect your engine and cooling system and what is recommended from Cummins. When I did the change out I had Cummins do the work and flush the entire system and replace it with the red long life

Re: Long life antifreeze

Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 106837
Wally: By the way, I also have a 2007 470 Siskiyou Summit 42 foot with a Cummins. P. S. I would suggest before you change the coolant you also replace all the hoses coming from your recovery tank to the radiator with quality Gates antifreeze cooling line. The hose that were put in your couch is cheap fuel line hose. There's about 20 feet of hose in all. With minimal Talent you can do the job yourself with no problem and save some bucks

Re: Long life antifreeze

Reply #15 –
Yahoo Message Number: 106841
Brain

Do you know what size the little hoses coming out of the expansion tank are? Also, about how much coolant did you lose changing these?

In the picture (Cummins) you can see there are three. One goes to the turbo for cooling. There would be an out flow somewhere from the turbo. Another connects into the upper radiator hose extension, and the other goes back towards the thermostat area. Have not looked to see where that one goes.

Does anyone have an accounting of all the coolant hoses on a Cummins in the Allure? There are the upper and lower radiator hoses plus any extension connectors plus the three on the back of the expansion tank. Are there others?

George Harper
04 Allure 31093

Re: Long life antifreeze [1 Attachment]

Reply #16 –
Yahoo Message Number: 106842
Supposedly the hoses where already changed, no harm in someone checking them. You mention a red long life coolant, going to check on it being "long life" Also, had a wax thermal valve installed and it runs at 185 and not at 198. Think the cooper/steel radiator that I replace the aluminum with was also the way to go. Thanks for all your suggestions.

Re: Long life antifreeze [1 Attachment]

Reply #17 –
Yahoo Message Number: 106847
Wally; replacing the hoses can be done very efficiently with loss of about a gallon of antifreeze. I actually met a buddy of mine with another 470 at an Elks Lodge in Sacramento and we did both coaches and then topped off with distilled water later, my air charge cooler and radiator both went out and it was then I changed over to the red long life antifreeze. Sorry I don't remember how many gallons there was but I do know Cummins recommended we flush it and blow the lines out as much as possible for the changeover FYI I had nothing but heating problems or a couple of years with the old aluminum radiator when I changed over I eliminated the transmission cooler when I had the radiator built as I had a separate transmission cooler and I now run an average of 180 to 285 degrees Max on a severe Hill like The Siskiyou Summit will go up to 200 Max one word of warning when you replace the hose is over there air condition compressor use a hose over a hose has the vibration of the compressor wore a hole in my original hose as well. By the way I also changed out my electronic fan cooler to the Monaco style mechanical controller works way better and no problem

Re: Long life antifreeze

Reply #18 –
Yahoo Message Number: 106848
I've got 46,000 miles on my couch I've been across United States 4 times. I've rebuilt my coach to be able to do this and I'm not a real fan of country coach today! They're probably the best most solid coach built, however need to be sorted out and it's very time-consuming and costly. When I purchased my coach in January 2009. I was the last sale Country Coach did at the factory. I purchase my coach December 15th 2008 had left it at the factory for PDI and was called two weeks later as it was locked down with no PDI or warranty and told to come get it as soon as possible. I purchased an extended warranty as did my close friend with a 2006. Both coaches have had the same issues and we both have spent around $50,000 each for upgrades and repairs.

Re: Long life antifreeze

Reply #19 –
Yahoo Message Number: 106849
May I ask what issues you had? What model and engine? I have an 09 Allure with ISM 500 Cummins with 30k miles and have owned it a short period of time but have had no real issues as of yet. What preventive maintenance do I need to do? Thanks in advance!
Dennis 09 Allure 470

Re: Long life antifreeze

Reply #22 –
Yahoo Message Number: 106853
Very nice couch!! wish I had bought the Crane Prairie as well. I am not familiar with that coach but I do know the 05 06 and 07 42 foot Siskiyou Summit had issues. They did fix a number of issues in the 08 and newer coaches. the main issues with the five six and seven were the aluminum radiators cooling system and electrical zantrex ( Statpower) locations. I have replaced my entire cooling system down to the fan motor as well. I Replaced or modified much of my electrical system. I move the inverter to a midbay and replaced the statpower 3000 with a magnum 2800 and control panel. I replaced all the TVs and electronics and now I have a 47 inch HD 4K television in front. I tore out the entire bedroom slide area and put in a 40 inch 4K Sony theater surround there as well. The TV's and Amps all have cooling fans as well. I have been told The entire system looks Factory .

My main b**** right now is the fiberglass checking from 04 on up.
Country coach was paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for the defect, and never passed it on to the coach owners and now the fix is a $25,000 repair. One other very big repair was where Country Coach didn't properly prime, prepare and seal the tops of the slides. This has become a very big issue and water damage mitigation. I had to tear out one entire slides and replace the ceiling, and then went back over all the slides, strip off the sealant and put new sikaflex on them.. Oregon coach has had hundreds of these coaches come thru for repair and in some cases had to pull the entire slide out, tear off the outside fiberglass along with the inside walls and sandblast the framing, amd put them all back together ! Anyone with a country coach who hasn't checked theyre slide top sealant is gambling a very big expense! you have to get up and try to peel it back to be sure it's adhering properly, haven't seen one yet that was done properly. Sometimes it's one of those sneaky things. it begins with odor and mildew and eventualy water, wall and fiberglass damage. It's easy to check, get a putty knives and a ladder and go up on your slides to be sure the sikaflex is it adhearing to the metal fiberglass and can't be peeled back easily. For proper sealing, you will have to pull back all your toppers, Sandown, etch and prime coat the surface before applying sikaflex.

Re: Long life antifreeze

Reply #23 –
Yahoo Message Number: 106854
Thanks for the info! My Zantrex is mounted in the mid bay so hopefully no problem in the near future. I understand most owners don't like the Zantrex at all and chose to replace it with the Magnum. Mine has the good radiator and wet PTO but do need to replace heater hose with heater hose not fuel hose!! This particular coach belonged to Ron Lee for a few years before I bought it back in October. It was used for a pattern for the new 2016 Allure he built before selling out to Winnebago. Some people not fond of Ron but I had no issue. After looking at more than 50 coaches from Intrigues to Affinities this was by far the cleanest I have seen! No checking in paint at all! I put new tires on it, the others were outdated but in absolutely new condition!! This coach has lived indoors most of its life so we'll see how it does out doors! Lol We lived in it outside the shop for a few days before we did the final purchase and had a few small issues repaired before the final deal. I did completely rebuild the hydro hot unit with new gaskets, filter and nozzle. Also completely flushed the entire system with Distilled water and replaced the boiler fluid. Replaced a controller in the front commode. Just generally things that can and will go wrong. I will check the slides as soon as it cools down a bit, it's 103 in Aguanga CA right now!! Thanks again! Dennis

Re: Long life antifreeze

Reply #24 –
Yahoo Message Number: 106855
I know the coach and yes you probably were one of the lucky ones since Ron owned it. I know Ron pretty well and I like him. Frankly the checking occurs after the coach has been in the Sun for a while, and it's most prevalent in the darker colors. It's sort of funny but I moved by converter to a midday and they moved it to the same midbay on the 08 coaches. By the way, have you ever stayed at the Armitage Park up there and Eugene? I think I saw you there one time when I was there. have you ever had Brian Van de Walker work on your coach?