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Problem in coach's toad wiring system

Yahoo Message Number: 107035
I'm having some trouble locating a wiring problem in the coach's toad wiring circuit.

Symptom: the toad driver's side brake light/turn signal is always ON (not flashing) when the umbilical cord is connected to the coach. All other lights on the toad and coach function normally when the umbilical cord is connected. When the toad is disconnected from the coach, all the toad lights and all the coach lights function normally.

I can see that the left brake light/turn signal wire is always activated (~12v) at the connector on the rear of the coach. The corresponding "output" wire leaving the circuit board (mounted on the floor under the drawers in the bedroom) is also activated at all times. Pulling the appropriate blade fuse deactivates the "output" wire.

It appears there is at least one circuit board "input" wire that is also activated at all times - the left brake/turn signal wire?

When the turn signal lever on the steering column is activated for either a left or right turn, I can hear the audible "flasher" in the driver's area. At the circuit board in the rear I can hear an audible flasher for the right turn signal only; nothing for the left turn signal.

The problem is I can't located the source of the rear "flasher" sound. I can't tell if it comes from the board itself or a nearby external device.

This problem has been intermittent for the past year or so, but is now constant.

So far I haven't found any local technicians eager to troubleshoot this problem.

Any help/advice will be appreciated.
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Tom Harsch '02 Allure #30791

Rapid City, SD
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Tom Harsch -- 2002 36' Allure #30791

Re: Problem in coach's toad wiring system

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 107036
The box may have failed. Send me a picture of it I may have one to help you.

Mikee

Re: Problem in coach's toad wiring system

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 107039
I had the same issue 4 or 5 years ago when the passenger side toad directional light stayed on. One portion of the circuit board at the rear of the coach failed. Rather than try to repair it, I purchased a new one through Kevin Waite. I kept the old one in the event the problem happened again, in which case, I could probably salvage the parts needed. (I don't know where you can purchase the needed components if you want to try to repair yourself.)

Dennis

36 ft 2003 Allure #30884

Re: Problem in coach's toad wiring system

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 107040
Send me a picture of the box, I think I have a couple for sale.

Mikee

Re: Problem in coach's toad wiring system

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 107041
Tom,

There should be a relay for each function on that board, that relay opening and closing is the flasher noise you hear. When you had the intermittent problem, was the coach subjected to a lot of road splash from rain, or washing the engine area?? Anyway, with the toad disconnected you should hear a relay flasher noise with left and then right directional on your tow board. If that works, I would say it is a toad issue. However, if only the right relay is opening and closing, it's a coach issue. When I mentioned the water, there is a couple of molex plugs going to and from that board. You could have a molex plug going to that board that is all corroded, or full of water. Those plugs can be buried in your wire loom. As a rule, those boards are trouble free and is a wiring/plug issue. I think the latter because you should not have power to the board without the directional activated. Find and check the molex plug to the board first.

Fred w/SOB

Re: Problem in coach's toad wiring system

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 107099

Here are a couple photos of the coach's toad wiring control board that seems to be failing. Any known sources out there? Mikee? Kevin?

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Tom Harsch 2002 Allure #30791
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Tom Harsch -- 2002 36' Allure #30791

Re: Problem in coach's toad wiring system

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 107100
Tom,

What is happening that makes you think the board is bad?

Don

'02 Intrigue 11427
'02 Intrigue #11427

Re: Problem in coach's toad wiring system

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 107101
Don & Fred,

I have a trailer wiring test light harness plugged into the umbilical cord socket on the back of the coach. The left turn/brake light is constantly lit.

All the turn/brake lights on the coach itself operate as they should.

When the right turn signal is activated, the board (relay?) makes the flasher noise - tick tick tick - and the right turn/brake light flashes, as expected. When the left turn signal is activated, the board makes an weak, erratic sound like it is trying to flash but the left light remains on (and the right light flashes randomly).

One Molex plug I located in the engine compartment (between the control board and the umbilical socket) has the left turn/brake wire constantly powered. All other wires in the plug seem to be functioning normally - flashing when they should be, on steady when they should be and off when they should be.

I'm still looking for another Molex plug upstream of the control board, but haven't located that one yet.

The Molex plugs that connect directly to the control board aren't the easiest to access, but I believe there is at least one powered wire entering the board (along with the constantly powered left turn wire leaving the board).

It seems to me there "should" be one powered wire entering the board to power the board itself and to provide the power boost need to drive the umbilical wires, as needed. Correct me if I'm wrong! --

Tom Harsch 2002 Allure #30791
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Tom Harsch -- 2002 36' Allure #30791

Re: Problem in coach's toad wiring system

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 107107
Tom,

Is your board that accessible to take that photo??? On my previous Magna, it was a nightmare. Anyway, if it is that easy, check the signal coming from the coach wiring to the board. Unplug, and check with your test light each function. If you have a constant light for left turn with the board disconnected, something is up with the coach wiring. However, if each function from the coach is correct and functioning properly, then something is up with that board. I would say it is a bad relay or component on the board. After 14 or 15 years of use, your best bet is to replace the board. The important thing is to check the signal from the coach or you are spending money for nothing. It looks like "Mikee" has what you need and it will be a "plug and play" if your coach wiring checks out. (I am sure it is fine)

Fred "On the Dark Side w/SOB"

Re: Problem in coach's toad wiring system

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 107108
hI, HAS ANYONE WIRED A ELECTRIC TRAILER BREAKE CONTROLER, IS THERE A EXTRA WIRE IN THE WIREING HARNEST AT BACK OF COACH.
FOR ELECTRIC BREAK, THANKS CHARLES 2000 MAGNA 5886

Re: Problem in coach's toad wiring system

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 107110
Yes, and there are several "spare" wires in our 36' Intrigue #11238. Don Krahling

Re: Problem in coach's toad wiring system

Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 107111
Right after we bought our 2004 Allure our toad lights wouldn't work. We were on a trip to the east coast and were lucky enough to find Mobile RV Tech in Ennis, MT. He looked at our board and said - it's toast - and they don't make them anymore. So, he built us a new one. Here is his website.
http://www.mobilervtech.biz/ Don is a great guy and if you are anywhere near him he could probably help you out. However, he is a one man operation (along with his wife) and is very busy in the summer.

Re: Problem in coach's toad wiring system

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 107112
I bought a replacement tow board from country coach.
 
Jack
2002 allure 30782

Re: Problem in coach's toad wiring system

Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 107116
Fred,

All the wiring signals entering the tow board seem to be good:
one ground wire
one hot wire (to power the board) - ON at all times one left flasher signal - flashes when activated one right flasher signal - flashes when activated one brake signal - ON when brake depressed
one headlight signal - ON when headlights (or parking lights) turned on

The left taillight signal leaving the board is always ON; all other signals leaving the board operate as expected - ON, OFF or flashing.

I'm now satisfied the tow board itself is at fault and am looking (offline) for a replacement board - Mikee, Kevin, Country Coach, etc.

Thanks (to all) for the troubleshooting and replacement source suggestions! --

Tom Harsch 2002 Allure #30791
Rapid City, SD
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Tom Harsch -- 2002 36' Allure #30791

Re: Problem in coach's toad wiring system

Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 107117
One last test you might want to try are the flashers or relay's for the flasher switchable? If they plug into the board try swapping might be cheaper and quicker than a board.

Ray

They say wine improves with age! As I enter my golden years, I say age improves with wine! The Born Loser

Re: Problem in coach's toad wiring system

Reply #15 –
Yahoo Message Number: 107123
Tom,

Glad you pinpointed the issue. Those relays can be unsoldered and replaced; as a matter of fact, I think I purchased a couple for my old coach. If interested, I will see if I have a part number and resource. But, replacing the whole board will give you peace of mind and good to go for another 14 years.

Fred

Re: Problem in coach's toad wiring system

Reply #16 –
Yahoo Message Number: 107124
I do have 2 available, but send me a picture of yours so I can be sure they are the correct ones.

Mikee

Re: Problem in coach's toad wiring system

Reply #17 –
Yahoo Message Number: 107137
Fred,

It might be good to have the relay part numbers and a source (just in case). Are the part numbers on the relays themselves? I can read "NEC" but nothing else without removing the board and getting out a magnifying glass.

Its beginning to look like replacing the entire board may no longer be an option - Mikee doesn't have boards that match mine. I'm still playing phone tag with Kevin Waite and the CC parts department.

I'm wondering if this whole "powered" trailer circuitry is really necessary. Is there any particular reason the "trailer" socket wiring can't simply tap into the coach taillight wires? With auto and truck tow vehicles I've owned in the past, there was never anything like the tow board involved in the "trailer" wiring. What's unique about having a tow board designed into the trailer wiring? Separate fuses for the trailer wires? A bit more power to the trailer tail lights?

Thanks for your help.
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Tom Harsch 2002 Allure #30791
Rapid City, SD
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Tom Harsch -- 2002 36' Allure #30791

Re: Problem in coach's toad wiring system

Reply #18 –
Yahoo Message Number: 107144
Tom, 5 or 6 years ago the tow board on my '04 Allure went casters up. I removed it replaced it with a tail light converter unit similar to this one.

Amazon.com: Tekonsha 119191 ModuLite HD Plus Protector with Integrated...

Worked great and simple to install.

George in Birmingham(now in Santa Fe) '03 Magna 6298
George in Birmingham
2003 Magna 6298

Re: Problem in coach's toad wiring system

Reply #19 –
Yahoo Message Number: 107158
Tom,

The main reason for the board is to allow the coach to adapt to the American model and the imported model of brake light/tail light/turn signal operation. There is a switch on the board to allow for switching back and forth depending on how they operate on the toad. I had trouble with mine also and wired it without the board (removed it). It will work that way but may nead to be reconfigured if you switch toads. It was a good system when it worked.

Dan, 2003 allure

Re: Problem in coach's toad wiring system

Reply #20 –
Yahoo Message Number: 107161
There are 2 reasons for it and Dan covered a big one.

The other main one isolation which matters when something goes wrong, like short in the toad.

It also lowers the load on the switches and flashers since it repowers the signal before sending it to the toad.

Re: Problem in coach's toad wiring system

Reply #21 –
Yahoo Message Number: 107164
Tom,

I was away from the computer, and will be for a few day and did not see your post. However, that tow board is a great thing in that it completely isolates the tow plug wiring from the coach wiring. Let me see if I can get that NEC part number for you. I am sure Kevin Waite would be your best resource, if Mikee does not have one. You may also try Jim Cooley at OMC, he could head you in the right direction.

Fred

Re: Problem in coach's toad wiring system

Reply #22 –
Yahoo Message Number: 107170
I had a discussion with Greg at CC tech support yesterday. He said the main reason for the presence of the tow board is to off-load the Smart Wheel control board which was thought to reaching a limit of the power it could safely handle.

In the era of LED lighting this may or may not be as much of an issue.

He says CC may be able to arrange for repair a failing board, but parts availability is becoming an issue.

CC has commissioned someone to design and build an updated tow board (CC part #13010) with better components. The new board is "plug-compatible" with the old board and fits in the height-limited space under bedroom drawers where some tow boards are currently installed.

I plan to order the new board. Will post a follow-up message after I get a chance to try it out.
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Tom Harsch 2002 Allure #30791
Rapid City, SD
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Tom Harsch -- 2002 36' Allure #30791

Re: Problem in coach's toad wiring system

Reply #24 –
Yahoo Message Number: 107207
Rich, yes we all have it. Mine is located in the service bay on the passenger side. That is the last bay on that side. It is located high up wall. You will recognize it by the fact that there are two wire bundles to it. Yours should be in the same place.

IF you look and cannot find it let me know and I will try to post a photo of its' location.

George in Birmingham(in Santa Fe for the summer) '03 Magna 6298
George in Birmingham
2003 Magna 6298