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Newby seeking advice on which used CC (or Beaver or Foretravel) to l

Yahoo Message Number: 108093
Hi all -

Wife & I are new to RVing and seek a used, high quality coach. My goal is to full time within a year or so.
Loved 2004 Beaver Marquis we looked at, but small crack in passenger side fiberglass plus strange 2" circular marks (almost like ultrasonic welds???) in same area scared us off.

I seek your advice on which CC coaches are known to be solid and reliable, as well as which models/years are known for issues and perhaps are better avoided.

Any other advice or inspection checklists and resources will be greatly appreciated. Budget is $150K or below.

Many thanks in advance for your support.

Ken

Re: Newby seeking advice on which used CC (or Beaver or Foretravel)

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 108094
There is a nice 2004 Intrigue Ovation on RV Trader. Cream and blue, two slides, three AC's w/heat pumps, with the C13 525hp Cat. Early model '04's came with the Cummins or optional C12. Less than $100,000. Let me know if you're interested, very negotiable.

Britt

2004 Intrigue 11836
910-371-2073 
www.cojobluegrass.com

Re: Newby seeking advice on which used CC (or Beaver or Foretravel)

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 108096
I would imagine you could find nice Intrigues up to and maybe including some models of 05 coaches. They were the last of the classic design with lower ceilings, and had simpler electronics and electrical systems. You might be able to find a nicer Magnas, but they might be a year older. But when speaking of coaches of this age in life, maintenance is always going to be the biggest concern, so I would want all service records. I would stay away from Inspires and Allures with the high ceilings and single pane front windshield. They are the models that were affected with fiberglass checking. Most all coaches from this vintage, including Beaver , Foretravel, Country coach, etc had turbo cooler and radiator issues. So beware if the units have not been replaced. Make sure the tires have been replaced recently and hire someone with experience who you can trust to do a thorough inspection. Have the engine oil and transmission oil analyzed would be a smart move. I might join one of the CC clubs and go to a meeting you might find a well taken of coach that way and fellow members could steer you in the right direction. You should Join FMCA and go to an international rally, sometimes you can pickup trade ins saving a lot of money. We have been at numerous CCI and CCFI rallies where coaches were bought sold with heavy savings between members. TWI 2004 Intrigue 11731

Re: Newby seeking advice on which used CC (or Beaver or Foretravel)

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 108098
I have to disagree with the comment about paint checking on Allures!!! I looked at 30+ coaches before I purchased my Allure and EVERYONE of the coaches I looked at had checking!!! Including Intrigues, Magna's and Affinities! Monaco's and Beaver had checking as well! That primarily is the reason I purchased the coach I have, it was the cleanest of the bunch!! I can say that my 09 Allure does not have one check in the paint!! I will put my Allure up against any Intrigue, Magna and Affinity any day for reliability! I feel ALL CC's are built on a solid foundation but each have their unique quirks. These are not just my opinions but are facts!

Dennis L. 09 Allure 31700 470 CP

Re: Newby seeking advice on which used CC (or Beaver or Foretravel)

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 108099
I've been led to believe that checking was resolved for a large percent of all Country Coach models by 07, give or take a year. My 07 Intrigue has no checking.

Lee (leozbrowski@...) President, CCI

2007 Country Coach Intrigue 12153
CAT C-13

Re: Newby seeking advice on which used CC (or Beaver or Foretravel)

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 108100
There's a hell of a deal recently posted to the Country Coach International group on Facebook. 2000 Affinity 42' for 47,000. Might be a little older than what you had in mind but that's right in the sweet spot of year models many seem to think were among the best CC's.

Dusty Sharp

Re: Newby seeking advice on which used CC (or Beaver or Foretravel)

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 108101
I would like to view that online. That sounds like a hell of a deal and that is in the good years of build quality. We have a 2000 Allure and love it. I want to see this unit.

Re: Newby seeking advice on which used CC (or Beaver or Foretravel)

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 108102
Guess I have to take issue with your statement about Inspires with high ceilings and single pane windshields. Before we purchased our 2007 Inspire we had a down payment on a 2005 Allure. But it was dark green and had lots of "checks". After much research we learned that this was a fault of many coach manufactures during the 2004-2006 years and was cosmetic in nature not structural. By 2007 the issue had been resolved. So we began our search for a 2007 or later model that was within our budget. Our 2007 Inspire 360 DaVinci model fit just fine. Has all the features of the Allure except radiant floor heat (don't need in So Cal) and the tag axel. It is 10 years old now, we have owned it for 6 years and the paint looks brand new. We are a very satisfied couple and travel about 4 months out of the year.

Craig and Kathy Spiess
2007 Inspire 360 #51959

2005 Honda Civic Hybrid 4 Down

Re: Newby seeking advice on which used CC (or Beaver or Foretravel)

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 108103
My 07 intrigue has no checking
#12075

Re: Newby seeking advice on which used CC (or Beaver or Foretravel)

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 108105
My 06 Intrigue does not have
Any checking either Bob 06
Intrigue 12047

Re: Newby seeking advice on which used CC (or Beaver or Foretravel)

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 108106
If you're not on FB or a member of the CCI group on there here is the text of the post by Sheila Zaro. I wish I'd stumbled on this one when we bought our '98 Intrigue earlier this year (still love ours though):

"Because of medical bills we can't retire yet. So, we have a beautiful well cared for 42' 2000 Country Coach Affinity for sale. This coach has a lot of upgrades including heated ceramic floors, full size side by side with ice and water in the door, garbage disposal. It only has 97000 miles on a 455 Cat which runs beautifully. Inside and out is absolutely beautiful. Pictures on request. Please pass the word. We are selling way below market value for a quick sale $47,000.00 Please email me at sheilazaro@.... Have a great day everyone"

Dusty Sharp

Re: Newby seeking advice on which used CC (or Beaver or Foretravel)

Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 108108
Very helpful insights, Thomas. Thank you.
Ken

Re: Newby seeking advice on which used CC (or Beaver or Foretravel)

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 108111
We have 2006 Inspire and have had none of these problems. Like the C9 Cat but did have to replace the ECM in response to an engine warning light. Replaced several shear pins until I starting using the factory specified pins. Replaced all the bushings on the chasis as these were checked badly. (best guess cause is 10 years in Arizona heat.) My thanks to Ken Waite who figured out the factory bushing info was incorrect and got us the correct ones. We had a Beaver Monterey for 12 years and really cherished it, but the chasis on the Inspire is far superior in our experience. We have the unit waxed once a year and are diligent about maintenance. The exterior still looks like new, no checking. We have owned motorhomes for 40+ years and can say ALL of them needed to be maintained effectively, and ALL of them gave us surprises.

From: "'Thomas Insall, Jr.' cmarshall@... [Country-Coach-Owners]" To: Country-Coach-Owners@yahoogroups.com Cc: "Thomas Insall, Jr."

Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2016 1:37 PM Subject: Re: [Country-Coach-Owners] Newby seeking advice on which used CC (or Beaver or Foretravel) to look for or avoid.

I would imagine you could find nice Intrigues up to and maybe including some models of 05 coaches. They were the last of the classic design with lower ceilings, and had simpler electronics and electrical systems. You might be able to find a nicer Magnas, but they might be a year older. But when speaking of coaches of this age in life, maintenance is always going to be the biggest concern, so I would want all service records. I would stay away from Inspires and Allures with the high ceilings and single pane front windshield. They are the models that were affected with fiberglass checking. Most all coaches from this vintage, including Beaver , Foretravel, Country coach, etc had turbo cooler and radiator issues. So beware if the units have not been replaced. Make sure the tires have been replaced recently and hire someone with experience who you can trust to do a thorough inspection. Have the engine oil and transmission oil analyzed would be a smart move. I might join one of the CC clubs and go to a meeting you might find a well taken of coach that way and fellow members could steer you in the right direction. You should Join FMCA and go to an international rally, sometimes you can pickup trade ins saving a lot of money. We have been at numerous CCI and CCFI rallies where coaches were bought sold with heavy savings between members. TWI 2004 Intrigue 11731

Re: Newby seeking advice on which used CC (or Beaver or Foretravel)

Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 108113
Ken : I would give American Coach serious consideration . I have a CC bus and a 1995 Fleetwood Dream. American coach wound up with Fleetwood and I have never had trouble getting parts or technical advice on this twenty one year old coach but seems I can never get tech advice on the CC .Remember, on these orphan coaches, you are pretty much on your own .I have two friends who have recently traded their CC'S for Tiffen buses because of continuing problems and lack of support.

Re: Newby seeking advice on which used CC (or Beaver or Foretravel)

Reply #15 –
Yahoo Message Number: 108117
OP - That is a good budget to work with. And I assume you've left a line item budget above that to do any catch up on baseline maintenance, and or modifications you may want - to make it you're coach? (If not, suggest you drop your target price to the $135K level, and retain $15k to do the above:)!).

When we are hunting, I felt the sweet spot in the CC lineup for our budget range of $140-150K, was the Intrigue. We wanted 40-42', and I wanted the BIG BLOCK optioned CAT. I found the Intrigue to be a good balance in the model lineup. It got you into a bit better materials on the inside, and yet had what I call 'less glitz', and less complexities in systems and electronics, of say the Magna and Affinity. (And for sure, my choice of words of 'less glitz' is very much a personal opinion. Others may not feel that way:)!). I made a strategic error in our search for a coach, in letting my wife see the galley of our current rig, an 04 Allure 40' High Cascade. It was 'game over' once she saw the size of the galley. (We wanted non slide kitchen, and preferred a two slide drivers side only coach, but would have also gone with a three slide if the third slide was on the bedroom passenger side. I wanted non slide kitchen for two reasons. No moving plumbing, and I did not want to lose the 5-6" of cabinet space from the slide. Anyways, once she saw the Allures Cascade kitchen counter top space... well, we're enjoying it now:)! She did not care if it had a Briggs & Stranton engine for the power plant!!

We've had zero problem with tech support. Between Oregon Motor Coaches deep knowledge of CC (Many of the techs came from the CC factory. Bob Lee started OMC before his brother Ron got CC back up and trying to run out of bankruptcy, and I feel he got the cream of the crop when it came to tech's and management staff! As mentioned, Kevin Waite is also a great resource, and a very nice man too.

In addition to the CC models, are short list of coaches and years included:

- Travel Supreme
- Alpine

- Beaver (Preferred the Patriot Thunder over the Marquis.) - Monaco Executive/Signature

- Foretravel (Preferred the U320 or U290.) - American Coach
- Wanderlodge

- Newmar (Mountain Aire with BIG BLOCK option.)

We were targeting pre 2004 Smog Changed engines in those days, now 6 year or so earlier. Today? I'd probably target pre DEF engine coaches.

And, if you have not done so. And if you feel you can survive with one slide only, take a look at the Prevost based XZ platform coaches. A 40' Marathon with one slide, is within your budget range. And it is a step up from the above. Also, if you feel you have sufficient revenue and budget ahead, take a look at Newell's too.

Don't get me wrong. Very pleased with the quality of our 04 Allure 40' High Cascade. And I get by fine with the ISL. I do have paint micro checking on our darker paints. It's not noticeable until you get within a few feet of the coach. And even then, I've had a few comment about 'How neat your custom 'crinkle' paint is:)! Not a big deal to us, and for sure no structural problems with it at all. Tip! Lighter painted coaches hardly show it at all...

Happy hunting, and do have fun along the search journey!!! Best,

Smitty

04 Allure 31017, 40' High Cascade
04 Allure Sold to a nice new owner! Now enjoying a 07 Magna Rembrandt 45' ISX600 #6775
"We're ONDROAD for THEJRNY!" (Toad and Coach license plates, say Hi if you see us!)

Re: Newby seeking advice on which used CC (or Beaver or Foretravel)

Reply #16 –
Yahoo Message Number: 108120
I was asked which bushings we replaced on our 2006 Inspire. We replaced all of them.

The work was done by East Bay Frame and Axle in San Leandro CA, a company I have used for over 50 years and trust. After inspecting the bushings under the coach and finding out it had about 48k miles on it, they told me it was very unusual to see that kind of cracking on a unit with that low mileage. The deterioration affected all of the bushings. As mentioned in a earlier post, the best guess is that 10 years in Arizona heat may have contributed; however, all the other rubber parts of coach are fine.

The CC provided data on part identification and source for the bushings proved incorrect. Ken Waite got that resolved and got the bushings. Turns out the rear end on our unit is built by New Holland.

I have no idea if this a problem is common to Inspires, but it does suggest an inspection might well be considered.

Michael

Inspire 51748

From: "michael joyce chirojoy@... [Country-Coach-Owners]" To: "Country-Coach-Owners@yahoogroups.com" Cc: "Thomas Insall, Jr."

Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2016 9:33 PM Subject: Re: [Country-Coach-Owners] Newby seeking advice on which used CC (or Beaver or Foretravel) to look for or avoid.

We have 2006 Inspire and have had none of these problems. Like the C9 Cat but did have to replace the ECM in response to an engine warning light. Replaced several shear pins until I starting using the factory specified pins. Replaced all the bushings on the chasis as these were checked badly. (best guess cause is 10 years in Arizona heat.) My thanks to Ken Waite who figured out the factory bushing info was incorrect and got us the correct ones. We had a Beaver Monterey for 12 years and really cherished it, but the chasis on the Inspire is far superior in our experience. We have the unit waxed once a year and are diligent about maintenance. The exterior still looks like new, no checking. We have owned motorhomes for 40+ years and can say ALL of them needed to be maintained effectively, and ALL of them gave us surprises.

From: "'Thomas Insall, Jr.' cmarshall@... [Country-Coach-Owners]" To: Country-Coach-Owners@yahoogroups.com Cc: "Thomas Insall, Jr."

Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2016 1:37 PM Subject: Re: [Country-Coach-Owners] Newby seeking advice on which used CC (or Beaver or Foretravel) to look for or avoid.

I would imagine you could find nice Intrigues up to and maybe including some models of 05 coaches. They were the last of the classic design with lower ceilings, and had simpler electronics and electrical systems. You might be able to find a nicer Magnas, but they might be a year older. But when speaking of coaches of this age in life, maintenance is always going to be the biggest concern, so I would want all service records. I would stay away from Inspires and Allures with the high ceilings and single pane front windshield. They are the models that were affected with fiberglass checking. Most all coaches from this vintage, including Beaver , Foretravel, Country coach, etc had turbo cooler and radiator issues. So beware if the units have not been replaced. Make sure the tires have been replaced recently and hire someone with experience who you can trust to do a thorough inspection. Have the engine oil and transmission oil analyzed would be a smart move. I might join one of the CC clubs and go to a meeting you might find a well taken of coach that way and fellow members could steer you in the right direction. You should Join FMCA and go to an international rally, sometimes you can pickup trade ins saving a lot of money. We have been at numerous CCI and CCFI rallies where coaches were bought sold with heavy savings between members. TWI 2004 Intrigue 11731

Newby seeking advice on which used CC (or Beaver or Foretravel)

Reply #18 –
Yahoo Message Number: 108107
I can steer you to a really great condition 2006 Monaco Signature, 45 ft. 3 slide, 600 Cummins. Tan and burgundy. A real beauty. 2014 tires DOT tires. I know the owner has ordered a new Essex and is motivated to sell. This coach is at my friends dealer in Eugene OR. They just got it in on consignment. RV Sales of Oregon. I know this because I am sitting here looking at it all week while I have some work done on my coach. The owner is Rich Marston, 888-389-3678. Its on their website RVSales of Oregon.com. If I was looking I feel this is a really good buy for a coach of that magnitude, at this price. Asking $174,900.

Feel free to drop my name. Probably worth a cheap bottle of wine. :D

Ken Sair