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Engine start problems

Yahoo Message Number: 108761
I know that someone else just went through this, but, here I am now. I have a 2008 Tribute 260, with an ISL 425. My coach, after just parking it, won't start. There are a number of things that are curious. I fully charged my chassis batteries, which are AGM's, by attaching a heavy duty charger, for about 10 hours at 60 amps. When they were fully charged, showing 12.85 vdc, I attempted again to turn the ignition switch to "Start", but nothing happened. I had already checked all breakers, and the Chassis ACR 60 amp breaker had tripped, so it was reset. Still nothing. I made sure that the on-board battery charger, a Blue Sea Systems, p/n: 7600 model, was indicating properly. I had already checked my house batteries, and even started the Onan 8kw generator and had it online.

I also called and spoke with Greg, at Country Coach. As a Tech, he went over things with me and I verified that I had even gone so far as to bypass the chassis batteries by disconnecting them, and going straight to my heavy duty truck batteries. Still nothing. Greg suggested shorting between the start solenoid terminals, which still didn't produce any luck. This sort of leads to the possibility of a defective engine starter. Perhaps the starter solenoid on the starter could be the issue. Not too sure yet, but in the morning, I plan to pull the starter off and see what I can learn. If it is bad, perhaps I can have it rebuilt in Tacoma, WA. If not, and worse comes to worse, go to Renton, WA, and see Cummins Diesel Engines for suggestions or a replacement. No idea how much that will run.

So, this being a group of knowledgeable group, I am asking if any of you may have any suggestions of anything that I may have missed. Now to throw something else into the mix; my slides will not activate to move out, nor will my front curtain electrically move up. These may be unrelated, or related. I need to open up my inside circuit breaker covers and find the #2 breakers that operate these items. As I understand it, the Type 1 breaker will pop, and reset; but the Type 2 breaker will trip and then, must be pulled out and then screwed back in to reset it. I will find out tomorrow.

In all fairness, I also gave Kevin Waite a call, but didn't get time today to call him back with my results of things that he suggested for me to try. I respect Kevin and will try to contact him as well.

Any suggestions or help will be much appreciated.

Jim Hill

2008 Tribute 260
81138

Re: Engine start problems

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 108762
What is the volt reading at the chassis batteries? Then what is the reading at the house batteries?

You state you fully charged your chassis batteries, which are AGM.... Are you sure those are your chassis batteries and not your house batteries?

Mikee

Re: Engine start problems

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 108765
House (6vdc house batteries are located up front on the left side, and my chassis batteries are located right rear, just aft of my right rear wheel, and are the closest to the starter. With the voltage equalized, both were showing 12.8 vdc.

Thanks for asking,
Jim

2008 Tribute 260
81138

Re: Engine start problems

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 108766
Check the chassis battery disconnect, it may have partially failed.

After that what is the voltage at the battery cable on the starter?

Mikee

Re: Engine start problems

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 108770
I can't see anything obvious about the Battery Disconnect Switch, though agree that it may be internal. I will crawl back under and check the voltage at the starter, as well as the start solenoid that is frame mounted. It is very close to the starter, and pretty much "out of sign, out of mind", so to speak. If it is a fault, then that might explain the problem of not turning the engine over properly.

Thanks Mikee,

Jim Hill

2008 Tribute 260
81138

Re: Engine start problems

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 108771
Put a load on the chassis batteris, lights, heater etc and measure the voltage across the disconnect. It should be very low maybe 1/10 volt at the most. Or you can connect the cables together on one post and see.

t sounds more like a control circuit issue than anything.

A silly question, it is in neutral correct? Some coaches prohibit starting with the slides out, does yuors do that?

Mikee

Re: Engine start problems

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 108772
Jim..........You should be able to determine if the starter relay is at fault by turning on the ignition key and then going back and using the emergency start button. Mine is in the fuel filter bay, and is marked as such.

Dave Trotter

01 Intrigue 11215

Re: Engine start problems

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 108773
Guess that I never knew of, nor seen, a "Emergency Start Button" anywhere back there in the engine compartment. I'll have to search for it. It isn't depicted in any of my manuals.

Thanks for that,

Jim Hill

2008 Tribute 260
81138

On Oct 29, 2016, at 8:43 AM, Dave Trotter cdabode@... [Country-Coach-Owners] Country-Coach-Owners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Jim..........You should be able to determine if the starter relay is at fault by turning on the ignition key and then going back and using the emergency start button. Mine is in the fuel filter bay, and is marked as such.

Dave Trotter

01Intrigue 11215

Re: Engine start problems

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 108774
Mine is a very un-obvious rubber covered button about the diameter of a nickel. It is adjacent to the 12 volt fuse panel and the coach battery shut off switches.

Re: Engine start problems

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 108775
Could you possibly have a jammed starter? I had the starter bendix gear hang up on the flywheel. Put your hand on the starter and have someone turn the key, if your getting voltage to the starter you should be able to feel the starter lurch. Striking the starter sharply with a leather mallet while someone is turning the key may free it. I ended up replacing the starter.

Earl Densten

03 Intrigue 11554

Re: Engine start problems

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 108780
To all that offered help and suggestions:

As i mentioned in my prior message, I noticed several things not working correctly.

1) the engine starter would/or wouldn't attemt to engage, but at any rate, wouldn't turn over to start.

2) the front window electric curtin would not operate up, and was very slow to go down.

3) chassis batteries would not charge from the onboard battery charger.

4) my HydraLift wouldnt operate up.

I found the problem by following all of the electrical schmatic diagrams, as well as figuring what all of these items had in common.

There are 4 different heavy duty ground cables off of the chassis batteries, and one of them travels to the frame, about 5' forward of the engine starter, and about 2' forward of the chassis batteries.

It would seem that when Country Coach built these coaches, that the frame was welded, and then primed and painted.

Later on in the build cycle, the electrical wiring was installed. On my coach, the ground cable in question, was connected, but the paint was never cleaned down to metal, and prepped for a proper ground. My ground cable was installed, though not tightened down properly, and the associated daily driving and normal use of it, lead to a loss of ground contact.

I simply removed, cleaned, sanded, prepped and reinstalled the ground cable, and then, upon testing, noticed that everything now functions properly.

I then coated the connection with a red battery terminal sealant, and all is well.

I certainly wouldn't want to have to go through that again, but by conducting proper trouble shooting, and tracing the circuits, I was able to bring things to to a satisfactory conclusion. Your results may vary.

Thanks to all, and to Kevin Waite, as well to Greg, at Country Coach, whom was intrigued and spent a lot of phone time helping to trace the wiring out.

Jim Hill

2008 Tribute 260
81138