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Sub Zero camping?

Yahoo Message Number: 112705
Has anyone camped in their Country Coach up north for the winter in extended Sub-Zero temperatures? If so I would like to know what modifications you needed to do, etc. I mean plugged into 50 amp service and water of course.

Rich 2002 Magna

Re: Sub Zero camping?

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 112706
One thing we did was to get electric tape and taped it to the water hose and then covered it with a foam rubber pipe cover and then used duct tape to secure it. We also kept a trouble light with a 25 watt bulb in the water bay.

Mike Frederick
06 Inspire 51784

Re: Sub Zero camping?

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 112710
We did a winter in Pennsylvania..... Really no issues; ran a couple of space heaters, put some of the plastic stuff around our bedroom window (the kind you seal with a hairdryer) to help keep out the cold.... Heated hose.... Coach did great.

Cori & Greg Young
"The Restless Youngs"
2008 Allure Crane Prarie, 31655
www.therestlessyoungs.com
www.rvsolarsolutions.com

Re: Sub Zero camping?

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 112715
Yes to the above tips. You could also just top odd your water tank as needed, and put the hose away if you don't want to spend the coin for electric tape heated hose. I've run short runs, for 5-7 days of snow camping, thru pipe insulation - did OK. I never leave the sewer hose out for long. Just dump and restore.

Keeping the roof top vent cracked, will help on avoiding moisture/condensation build up. and while on 50A. We crank up our heated tile floor (a nice option in cool weather), and find that two 1500W heaters keep us warm (one on the passenger side outlet, the other on the driver side outlet, as two on the same 20A breaker will blow it.

When boon docking, we use a Heat Buddy over our Hydro Hot heater. We have LP stubbed out under our refrigerator, using the pipe feed tha had fed the fridge before we put in the Samsung. Able to place the Heat Buddy on the table top, important to us due to our dog, and it keeps us toasty. (Yes, roof top opened a few inches, and also the kitchen window opened 2-3". We've also added a second Carbon Dioxide Detector to the bedroom area. And take safety measures seriously.)

Note: The Hydro Hot kicks on in order to keep the wet bay area warm enough to not freeze, so not off all of the time, but not on often either:)!

Best of luck to you, have fun...
Smitty
04 Allure 31017
04 Allure Sold to a nice new owner! Now enjoying a 07 Magna Rembrandt 45' ISX600 #6775
"We're ONDROAD for THEJRNY!" (Toad and Coach license plates, say Hi if you see us!)

Re: Sub Zero camping?

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 112716
Rich

A lot depends on what you mean by sub-zero. I live in Northern NH and have camped here but not in my CC when I owned it. I once went to bed in a slide in pick up camper when it was 27 below. Don't rest you arm against a window or it will instantly freeze to it. We were close to a stick house in case anything went wrong. Used 2 full 20 lb tanks of propane overnight. We spent the rest of the week in the house with the rest of them. It was just an experiment and something I would not attempt without a building to escape to. Things go downhill very quickly from about 5 degrees on down.

I have been on the group for the better part of 20 years and recall CC being asked what their design minimum temperature was. Their response was that it was 10 degrees. After all they said, we are a west coast company. The coldest night I have spent in MY CC was 5 degrees near Taos NM. I found the HydroHot to be marginal running constantly all night so we added a space heater after that. The heated floor is a help. Most CCs have a heated water bay but even so it gets very close to 32 degrees at 5 degrees outside so I also but a 100 watt bulb in there for extra protection. I didn't feel that a 25 watt bulb would be enough. I believe that one can adjust the bay thermostat but I could not find it.

Here in NH there are very few campground open all year and those that are have a limited number of plowed out sites. All that I found that provided onsite water did so with a self draining stanchion. Heat tape or no you can not leave the stanchion turned on as there is typically 15 to 20 inches of frost here and sometimes up to 3 ft. The stanchion would freeze up below the ground line. So one has to rely on the holding tank, filling it from the stanchion as needed. On a rare occasion you might have a site next to a heated building with an outside faucet. Here you can use heat tape taking care to fully wrap both the tape and the insulation around the faucet and the inlet on the rig. Now you can leave the water turned on. I found that Frostex (sp) is the only way to go. It is a self regulating tape that can be cut to any length and will not overheat if wrapped over itself. Great stuff but pricey. Of course some managers will not let you do this. Sewer hose will not freeze up as long as you use something to give it a good pitch from the outlet to the sewer connection. There a a number of devices sold do do this. Much length of hose just laying on level ground could be a problem. You likely will have to keep waste water in the tank as well as the sewer waste water. Leaving the waste water tank open could also be a problem. Bit of a pain as most of you know the water water tank fills up much quicker than the sewer tank. Also I recommend draining the ice maker line if you have one. It has some tape but is not really designed for subzero temps for very long.

If one plans on spending a winter here in NH you better plan on having the rig in one place. We normally have a lot of snow and moving from one campground to another is difficult if you can even find another. Every thing that has to be done around the rig is made much more difficult in the cold and snow. For that reason you have to think about adding an extend-a-tank connection to the LP system so you can run on 20 lb tanks if you have to. Diesel fuel can also be a problem. Number 2 fuel gels around 9 degrees but begins to form paraffin at as high as 26 degrees. On road truck diesel is treated in the colder area of the country. So don't come north with a full tank if you arriving from very far south. Treating diesel is very regional. Even then that you should antigen treatment for the really low temps. Use as much electric heat as you can to avoid running out of diesel. It gets all over you when carrying in 5 gal cans. Another somewhat silly point is the space that winter clothing takes up. If you full time it can strain your storage spaces.

All of that said I am not trying to discourage you. Yeah right you say. Honestly we winter camped in the north country every weekend. weather permitting, all winter long and loved it. There is an added air of survival to it that isn't there in warmer climates, It cam be very rewarding if you have the right attitude. Most of the modifications you have to make are in you head place. You have to constantly think ahead about what to do if something fails. In sub zero temps you don't have much time to contemplate things.

Rich you did mean sub zero and not sub freezing I hope. Most of what I said pertains to area that can expect 4 or 5 days or more where the temps may not rise above zero in the day. That's 32 degrees colder than not rising above freezing for 4 or 5 days. Quite a difference.

Don Seager
Former CC Owner

Re: Sub Zero camping?

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 112721
Don great advise. Lee Z could use your reply in the CCI Newsletter. Very well put.
2006 Magna 6622
Gary Glenn
ServiceMaster by A-Town / Hi-Tech
325-665-4993

Re: Sub Zero camping?

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 112724
We typically spend about a month or two november to march timeframe camping in nebraska every year. We do not hook up to city water but refill the water tank and empty the waste water once a week. There is usually a week or two where the outside temp drops below 0 and won't rise above 10 to 15. We use a good amount of propane and make use of the 50 amp hookup with two electric space heaters, but even then we refill the propane once every two weeks so installing a extend a stay propane hookup is advisable. Our coaches do a pretty amazing job with few minimal upgrades in colder weather plus I like having the whole campground to ourselves. I know a person in Alaska who boondocks everywhere between Fairbanks and the Kenai in his 99 Allure to include Artic man and it does the job just fine!

Jesse 97 Intrigue 10357

Re: Sub Zero camping?

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 112726
Thanks Don. Useful tips. Yes I meant Sub-Zero as in down to minus 20 or 30 F at times and still single digits or below zero for long stretches. My Magna can handle teens or single digits at night with no mods or problems, but I once got caught in 15 below zero nite, hi of 5 for a couple of days by accident. I was running two electric heaters, the floor heat and at times to Hurricane upstairs and I was quite comfortable, around 73 degrees. Not having a dehumidifier, me and four dogs breathing, however, all the window frames started getting ice on the inside and the windshield was ice on the inside. So I know about that now. Of course the hurricane passive radiators in the Water Bay were running and I put a 200 watt personal heater down in the Water Bay. After a day or so something froze up the entire water system and I got the hell out of there. That's my main concern. I never identified exactly what froze. The passive radiators are not efficient. Putting fan-driven radiators in the Water Bay as we have upstairs would solve the problem I think, but that's kind of a big project. Maybe putting another 200 watt personal heater where the filter is in the next Bay might solve it.

Rich 2002 Magna

Re: Sub Zero camping?

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 112727
I'm a rookie at winter camping from what I've read here:)! We felt we did fine, with help from this and other boards too, when we left early in April for trip to Alaska. We spent 6-7 days at Strawberry at Lake Muncho boon docking with single digits temps each night.

What I take from these posts, is when you drop down to 'minus' single and double digit temps - it's a different game for sure...

Have printed out Don's post, and added notes from other postings too... Sure appreciate the info sharing of this gang...

Best to all,
Smitty
04 Allure 31017
04 Allure Sold to a nice new owner! Now enjoying a 07 Magna Rembrandt 45' ISX600 #6775
"We're ONDROAD for THEJRNY!" (Toad and Coach license plates, say Hi if you see us!)

Re: Sub Zero camping?

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 112728
Just wanted to add a couple more to help keep everything warm. Skirting like they do with mobile homes will help if you are staying in place. This is not practical if you are moving around every few days. Insulate the front windshield you loose a lot of heat (& cooling in summer) there. If you will be in snow, make sure your exhust ports (gen., aquahot, engine etc..)are clear or add piping to clear the snow.

Sincerely

Alex Ritchey 2000 CC Affinity B&B 42'

Re: Sub Zero camping?

Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 112741
Depends: For cold something that keeps the cold in a confined space. Heavy blanket, homemade built insulation or even that reflective bubble rap would work. Additionally, Card board or some other barrier on the outside (more so for long term stay. In the heat similar things, but you are also concerned with reflecting and shading to stay cooler.

Sincerely

Alex