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Mysterious slight coolant loss

Yahoo Message Number: 115664
I am losing about half a gallon of coolant roughly every 1500 miles, or over about 3 months of running the Hurricane while camped. Not sure if it's caused by the engine running or the Hurricane. I suspect the latter but I cannot say for sure. I have searched from stem to stern for evidence of leaks. Can I find thing. In fact, I can release the radiator cap after a month and the the system is still pressurized. Oil analysis shows no coolant in the oil. I've checked the radiator and all the hoses. I've checked all the Hurricane hoses, pumps, front School Bus pump (rear was long ago removed and bypassed) everything. Someone told me that there can be coolant evaporation from this brass air purge thing for the hurricane system up high in the engine compartment. Has anyone else experienced this mysterious problem?

Rich 2002 Magna

Re: Mysterious slight coolant loss

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 115669
are you talking about engine coolant or boiler fluid?

2006 Magna Rembrandt C13
2016 Jeep GC toad

Re: Mysterious slight coolant loss

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 115673
Hey Rich, while parked in Park City this past winter I used the Hurricane a lot for the first time. Before I left, I had to add between 1/2 to 1 gallon of coolant. My search revealed a leak at the MP pump in the Hurricane compartment. I replaced the pump, fittings and short stretch of hose going to and from pump.
Had the front heater MP circulating pump replaced by CC about 6 months ago and I just recently did the rear heater circulation MP "school bus pump" bypass and topped off coolant.
We'll see if I have the same loss while running the Hurricane a lot in the future Interested in what you find.

Keith
02 Affinity 42' tag #6123



Re: Mysterious slight coolant loss

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 115674
Keith, when you said you omitted the "school bus pump" in the rear, I thought that only pumped fluid up to the dash heater from the engine. This it has nothing to do with the Hurricane (or the loss of anti-freeze used by the Hurricane).

Right?

John Gates
907-244-7709

Re: Mysterious slight coolant loss

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 115679
John,

Yes, the "school bus pump"/rear MP circulating pump at rear of coach (circulates coolant forward for dash heat and the other one up front pulls it forward...) up above the front of the engine is a separate circuit from the hurricane as far as I know but it is another source of potential coolant loss if it is leaking.
Rich is having this spurious loss and I had a loss temporally related to a time I knew I was parked and running the Hurricane a lot in winter. I was just going over a check list of things I had done in both coolant circuits to eliminate possible losses from either. Both circuits are supplied by our motor/radiator coolant....

Keith
02 Affinity #6123

Show original message

On Saturday, July 21, 2018 12:06 PM, "John Gates thegates@... [Country-Coach-Owners]"  wrote:

Re: Mysterious slight coolant loss

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 115680
Thanks all. Keith, there are no leaks from either of my MP Hurricane pumps. The rear one is sitting right next to the hurricane unit clearly visible and there are no leaks. The other one is sitting in the electrical bay where the inverter is in the little room in the back of the third compartment and if there was the slightest leak it would be noticeable. So I am still baffled.

John, I am referring to engine coolant: With the CO 45 Hurricane I have, the engine coolant circulates through the Hurricane. There is no boiler fluid. This model does not heat domestic hot water other than through the "engine assist" tube welded to the outside of the Atwood water heater

Rich 2002 Magna.

Re: Mysterious slight coolant loss

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 115681
Wrong John, the engine coolant, the dash heater and the hurricane are all linked together through various hoses and fittings on this coach.

Rich 2002 Magna

Re: Mysterious slight coolant loss

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 115683
OK...but why is there a different antifreeze used in the Hurricane bay (I was told to use non-toxic)? I thought that the only time the engine's antifreeze became a part of the Hurricane is the loop from the engine to the Hurricane (to heat the domestic water from the engine). Then the non-toxic antifreeze is circulated through the hydronic heating system (the 3 fans in the coach).

So then, there are 2 antifreeze loops....one for the engine, dash heat & Hurricane and the other for circulation through the coach.

Is that closer?

Re: Mysterious slight coolant loss

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 115685
John everything goes to the stainless steel expansion tank with the radiator cap on it, is the best I can explain it. When the engine is running the engine coolant circulates from the engine through the hurricane and to the dash heaters. When the engine is off the engine coolant that's in the hurricane system circulates to the expansion tank and to the heater inside the coach. My CO45 does not have any expansion tank of its own. There are other models of hurricane that do. There is no place to put boiler fluid in to the hurricane. If you somehow figured out a way to do that once you started the engine the engine coolant would flow into the hurricane system and mix with the boiler coolant. In this system there is no reason to use non-toxic coolant anyway since it's impossible for engine coolant to get into the domestic water system.

Rich 2002 Magna

Re: Mysterious slight coolant loss

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 115687
Depends on the coach. Some have separate systems some don't.

Sincerely

Alex Ritchey CC 2000 Affinity B&B



Re: Mysterious slight coolant loss

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 115693
I've been in campfire conversations where the differences between Hurricane and HydroHot loops thru the engine and OTR Heaters has almost become rowdy:)! It's easy to confuse the two...

Rich - I have HydroHot, with the engine loop for both pre heating the engine, and arriving in camp with a hot tank of water. But one thing common between out coaches (Besides the rear bus pump that I too have bypassed.) - are the registers/heat exchangers.

I had noticed an increase in boiler fluid usage. Check all of my loops, hose clamps, HydroHot radiator cap, etc. I could find no problems. I finally borrowed a friends radiator tester, and add some pressure to the unit while cool - just to see if it was leaking. I confirmed that I had a loss of pressure. So the hunt continued. Found the the front register heat exchanger (On our coach, just in front of the passenger seat, above the step well.) was leaking. It was a loose clamp.

So if your heat exchangers with the Hurricane are similar to those in the HydroHot, you might want to check the heat exchangers. (Vern Burns at then OMC, now I believe at Marathon, told me to always check both the hose clamps and the heat exchangers themselves, for leaks - when unexpected and determined coolant leak took place.

Your unit will have a different odor, so good chance you'd have some sort of odor from a light coolant leak. The boiler fluid, was not much of an odor at all... (Of course, my DW has to tell me when a shirt should be sent into the laundry - so I might not be the best judge to that:)!).

Worth a look, and best of luck to you,
Smitty
04 Allure 31017
04 Allure Sold to a nice new owner! Now enjoying a 07 Magna Rembrandt 45' ISX600 #6775
"We're ONDROAD for THEJRNY!" (Toad and Coach license plates, say Hi if you see us!)

Re: Mysterious slight coolant loss

Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 115695
Thanks Smitty, I will investigate. I use Rotella ELC coolant which is bright red so it's hard to miss a leak although I suppose it could be evaporating from the Heat exchangers. I have looked at all three upstairs, and let's not forget the two in the wet bay, and I can see no liquid. How would I pressurize the hurricane system?

Rich 2002 Magna

Re: Mysterious slight coolant loss

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 115696
On the HydroHot, I used a Radiator Pressure Test Kit. Could you not use the same, as the coolant and heating systems are all interlinked? Some Auto stores will let you rent equipment, not sure if Radiator Pressure Test kits are of these pieces or not...

Smitty
04 Allure 31017
04 Allure Sold to a nice new owner! Now enjoying a 07 Magna Rembrandt 45' ISX600 #6775
"We're ONDROAD for THEJRNY!" (Toad and Coach license plates, say Hi if you see us!)

Re: Mysterious slight coolant loss

Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 115710
Rich, I have virtually the same coach you have. (2002 Magna) I experience the same thing as you but to a slightly lesser degree. Mine drops about a quart every few months. Oil analysis is clean. With a system this big and complex it may be impossible to find. Some say the hoses allow a very slow migration of fluid through the membrane. If you ever figure it out let us know..

Rick #6089

Re: Mysterious slight coolant loss

Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 115711
I was told by my Hydro Hot tech, it's the hoses CC installed that carry the fluid. They are the only ones he sees this issue with.

The hoses allow water to evaporate, but leaves the coolant behind. If you continue to add the coolant, your mixture will be way off. He advised me to cut the coolant with water and add as needed and not straight coolant. Test coolant mix annually. He has a special device to measure the coolant to water ratio.

From: Country-Coach-Owners@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2018 7:39 AM
To: blmarcione@... [Country-Coach-Owners]
Subject: Re: [Country-Coach-Owners] Mysterious slight coolant loss

are you talking about engine coolant or boiler fluid?

Re: Mysterious slight coolant loss

Reply #15 –
Yahoo Message Number: 115712
As I remember from talking to friends the earlier Cat engines were known for consuming oil either by combustion or leaking to the ground. 3208 was particularly bad, a C-12 not so much. But I know nothing about the C-10. TWInsall Jr 2004 Intrigue 11731 with a DAWG engine, that doesn't use oil.

Re: Mysterious slight coolant loss

Reply #16 –
Yahoo Message Number: 115721
That's very interesting. When I used to run regular green heavy duty coolant there would be a smell in here when the hurricane was run. Many people have had that problem. Since I converted over to red ELC, I no longer detect a smell. I find it difficult to believe that the hoses would allow just the water to evaporate without any of the chemicals in the coolant but it sounds like a good idea to look at the concentrations as you have raised.

Rich 2002 Magna

Re: Mysterious slight coolant loss

Reply #17 –
Yahoo Message Number: 115722
I have a C12. That somehow the engine is burning this up without having a bad head gasket or ending up in the oil, etcetera, has definitely occurred to me. It is definitely not dripping to the ground. I would see it. I'm going to be traveling 700 miles or so in the next few days and I'm going to keep an eye on whether this appears to be the engine or the Hurricane to the extent this is possible..

Rich 2002 Magna

Re: Mysterious slight coolant loss

Reply #18 –
Yahoo Message Number: 115723
Tom,I don't know anything about the 3208 but the C12 is not a leaker at all. I put on 10,000 to 14,000 miles a year and my add a gallon of oil in that time. Usually less. All is consumption as there is no oil on the floor of my bus barn.

The C10 and the C12 are the same engine with different displacement.

George in Birmingham(now in Santa Fe)
'03 Magna 6298
George in Birmingham
2003 Magna 6298

Re: Mysterious slight coolant loss

Reply #19 –
Yahoo Message Number: 115729
I have had this issue since I purchased the coach two years ago. I found the leak in the hose to the plastic expansion tank. I replaced the hose and then the tank. I am still losing maybe a gallon in 5000 miles? I just had the oil and coolant tested by CAT. There is no issue there. I do not use my Hurricane heater. So, it remains a puzzle!

Richard
01 Affinity C12 #5972

Re: Mysterious slight coolant loss

Reply #21 –
Yahoo Message Number: 115739
Follow up question for you sir. Do you have silicone hoses anywhere in the system? Heater hoses, or radiator hoses? Silicone will allow H2O to work it's way out of your system. This is how our HydroHot loses it's coolant, needing top off from time to time.

(Sorry if I asked this before, did not go back and read the full thread again:)!)

Best to you,
Smitty
04 Allure 31017
04 Allure Sold to a nice new owner! Now enjoying a 07 Magna Rembrandt 45' ISX600 #6775
"We're ONDROAD for THEJRNY!" (Toad and Coach license plates, say Hi if you see us!)

Re: Mysterious slight coolant loss

Reply #22 –
Yahoo Message Number: 115750
Check and make sure their is no coolant in your tranny fluid indicating a radiator replacement. It could also be the rear pump that sends hot coollant to the front dash is starting to fail. The smaller hoses that run from the top of the engine to the coolant tank and into the radiator may have started to fail. Other wise it maybe just the porosity of the hoses used in your coach. TWInsall. PS. I have the issue with my Hydrohot. !/2 a gallon every year. 2004 Intrigue 11731.

Re: Mysterious slight coolant loss

Reply #23 –
Yahoo Message Number: 115759
Yes Smitty, I believe my Hurricane system uses those green hoses. I did mention however that since I switch to Rotella ELC I don't have that funny smell anymore.

Rich 2002 Magna

Re: Mysterious slight coolant loss

Reply #24 –
Yahoo Message Number: 115760
Have you checked around your hot water heater. Some systems heat the water while driving using engine heated antifreeze. If your heater is more than ten years old it could have a small internal leak from the exchanger. Mine was leaking externally I caught it on an inspection.

Sincerely

Alex Ritchey 2000 CC Affinity B&B