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Wax Valve Issues

Yahoo Message Number: 115763
Had a complete shut down 2 weeks ago, CEL, then Shut Off Engine (red) light. Engine stopped completely...this was after starting engine and then climbing out of Bryson City, NC up a 3-4% grade for 2-3 miles @ 35 mph. The code was High Intake Manifold Air Temp.

Took the coach to Cummins and they determined that the wax valve did not open in time and thus the fan did not run at high enough RPM's and the intake air exceeded limits. Right?

So, after we left Cummins yesterday, we drove for 15 miles, filled up on diesel (took 15 mins.) and pulled out on the freeway. 2-3 mile grade and the Intake Manifold Temp went to 150 degrees (normal ops is 100) and when we came to the top of the grade, quickly the temp decreased to 100. Then we climbed up the 800' grade toward home and them Manifold Temp never went over 105.

So, at the fuel station, did the wax valve "close" and I did not run the engine long enough to allow it to "open" and run the fan at higher RPM's?

Thanks!

John

2003 Allure 1st ave.
370 Cummins ISL

Re: Wax Valve Issues

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 115764
Were you running roof AC during these events? I may be wrong but seem to recall, with a wax valve, you need to get all systems up to normal temp before turning on AC.
Lee Zaborowski

Re: Wax Valve Issues

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 115767
I suspect a bad Intake Manifold Air Temp Sensor. Change the intermittent sensor.

Mikee

Re: Wax Valve Issues

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 115768
Sounds more like leaking CAC, or some problem with CAC not cooling the inlet charge properly. What is your turbo boost doing? What was the engine coolant temp?

Greg
06 Magna

2006 Magna Rembrandt C13
2016 Jeep GC toad

Re: Wax Valve Issues

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 115782
Cummins said they checked the intake manifold sensor and it is working. I did turn on the dash A/C about 2/3 of the way up the grade. No gen set running and no rooftop A/C. I do not remember what the turbo boost was doing or the engine coolant temp. I've changed the Silverleaf to display the engine coolant temp and the air intake manifold temp and will watch them closely.

Thanks for all the suggestions!

John

2003 Allure 370 ISL

Re: Wax Valve Issues

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 115785
Sometimes a stuck closed thermostat can result in unusual readings. Watching your coolant temps will help identify if the coolant temps are suspect.

And yes leaking air connections to the turbo, can also cause erratic readings of nearby gauges.

Not to pick on Cummins, but I've known reading of different sensors to be fine when tested, that after further problems later turned out to be intermittently failing.

So no real help, just tossing more 'hmmmmm' info for you to consider. Please let us know what you find out, as it could help someone else in the future.

Smitty

04 Allure 31017, CAPS Era ISL370(Now 400)

Note: Running from San Diego to Vegas on the first day out for this years big trip, we had ether Coolant Temp red light come on. This was while pulling a long somewhat shallow grade between Barstow to Nevada State Line. 113 outside, and muggy thundershower conditions. Lots of coaches pulled over, or going slow, as well as cars and trucks. We dropped gears to get RPM's up, and the light went out. Coolant Temperature on Silver Leaf never got above 205-208 range, so I never felt I was at risk of hurting the engine. Red Coolant Temp game on twice during the pull of the grade. First time it stayed on for about 2 maybe 2 1/2 mins, from when I down shifted into 3rd gear and ran at 2200-2300 RPMS. After the grade reduced a bit, I went back into 4th gear, and ran 1850-2000RPM, about a 1/2 mile from the top of this long grade, the Red Coolant Light came on again. Temperature reported by Silverleaf was 202-205 range. So I went back down into 3rd and increased the RPM's again. Light went quickly off, and I pulled the rest of the grade in that gear.

I found no problems with coolant level, Final Charge and in good shape. Tested that the Wax Valve was activating the fan. Just last week, I went and bought the AC coil cleaners, and sprayed the radiator's from the outside, let soak, rinsed well with softened water. Waited until dry, then repeated. The first time I rinsed, it was a moderately dirty residue coming off (I say moderately, because I've seen it dirtier when doing my annual radiator cleaning.) But we had gone thru some construction zones in Arizona and California along I8, of which one was after a surface had been grounded, and light rain was tossing up slurry. So good chance that moderately looking color watered, included a film substance that could have reduced cooling efficiencies of the exchange to the air...

We'll be traveling later next month across from Coeur D'arlene area to Olympic Peninsula - and that is usually a hot region from Spokane on across Washington State. So will be a good test to see if this took care of the problem. (Could easily be a failing sensor too.)

All of the above was info sharing, as it relates too over heating related problems.
04 Allure Sold to a nice new owner! Now enjoying a 07 Magna Rembrandt 45' ISX600 #6775
"We're ONDROAD for THEJRNY!" (Toad and Coach license plates, say Hi if you see us!)

Re: Wax Valve Issues

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 115787


I am having over temperature problems also. On our trip to Springfield, Mo from Dallas. Had the some overheating problems last fall and they were suppose to put in the wax valve. Not sure they really installed the wax valve since I am still having problems.

Didn't have any problems the first several hours driving last Monday. Then the coolant over temp light came on several times and I had to slow down, I also had both rooftop a/c's since it was hot outside. So will slowing down and going to a lower gear get the fan to speed up? Is there other ways to keep the fan on high speed?

So not sure if they just changed out the Sourer-Danfoss or installed the wax valve. Where would they be installed. Here is one picture and I know it is not the wax valve. It is under and behind the surge tank. It is a 2001 Intrigue.

Is this picture the sourer dandfoss or some kind of sensor. It does look new.

Where would they install the wax valve or where is the danfoss located?

image1.jpeg

Thanks,
Gene
2001 Intrigue
36'

Re: Wax Valve Issues

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 115798
In the past 6 months my over temp light came on when the coolant temperature via the digital readout reaches 200 f and stays on until the temperature reaches 195 f. The temperature alarm sensor on my Cummins 370 ISL is rated to turn on at 105 C or 219 f.

(Note that this has gradually happened. Six months ago, when the issue first started, it came on about 205 f.) Several years ago when I had cooling fan issues with the Sauer Danfoss controller, it would come on when the temp reached about 215 f, a little lower than switch rating but within the tolerance of the sensors. My issue was the sensor and replacing it solved the problem. I suspect you have the same issue and I would not be concerned with temperatures in the 205 f area.

Dennis
2003 Allure #30884

Re: Wax Valve Issues [1 Attachment]

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 115803
If they installed a "wax valve", it would be located near the engine coolant output (between the engine and the rad). There would be 2 hydraulic lines leaving the top of the wax valve.

Re: Wax Valve Issues

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 115804
You are seeing 100 degrees while running? That is way to cold
'02 Intrigue #11427

Re: Wax Valve Issues

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 115809
Gene,

How about this, crawl under the radiator and take a look at the fan motor directly behind the radiator. There will be 2 hydraulic lines attached to the fan motor. Follow those lines. IF they are still connected to a small 6"X6" box fastened to the bottom side of the radiator, that is the fan controller and they did not install a wax valve.

However, if the lines head "upward" from the fan motor, follow them to what very well will be the wax valve. The wax valve will need to be mounted between the engine and the radiator on the supply line of coolant.

John
2003 Allure 370 Cummins.

Re: Wax Valve Issues

Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 115814
Thank you John.

I traced the hydraulic lines back and they went to the fan controller. So they didn't install the wax valve.

Thanks,
Gene
2001 Intrigue

Re: Wax Valve Issues

Reply #16 –
Yahoo Message Number: 115816
So if you have he OEM S.D. Controller, it could be going bad.

They typically default the fan speed mode into High, if not operating properly. With the engine cold, have someone start the engine, with no Over The Road AC on, as you stand next to the radiator side grill. If the fan comes on and sound like it's going strong at engine start up, then the fan is in Default High Mode. (You could also hold a paper up to it, and see what it does.)

If the fan does not seem to have come on in High Mode. Wait about 5-10 mins with the engine running, and listen for fan speed change noise as you stand next to the side radiator grill. At the end of 5-10 mins, have some on turn on the Over The Road AC, and that should kick the fan speed to a higher level, if the Controller is working.

As I believe has been mentioned, under the Driver's seat in the basement pay is the fuse area. Open the box and fine the fuse for the Radiator Fan, pulling it, is also supposed to engage the Fan Speed to High Speed.

Since you now know where your SD Controller box is. One thing I did successfully a few times when having problems, is un plug the wire harness. Spray male and female contacts with Electrical Cleaner. Use a Can of Air to dry it (Or wait 30 minutes.). Used a Q-Tip with a dab of Dielectric Grease to get some on the male prongs, and put plug the harness back together. This got the S.D. Fan Controller working again for me twice. So I then started doing this as yearly maintenance activity.

I have now bypassed the S.D. Fan Controller, with the linked above Source Engineering Wax Valve - and like the KISS approach to controlling the fan speed.

And, a dirty radiator will not cool as efficiently as a clean radiator. So cleaning can also help avoid overheating. As well as being sure your coolant is healthy as far as the mix.

Best to luck to you,
Smitty
04 Allure Sold to a nice new owner! Now enjoying a 07 Magna Rembrandt 45' ISX600 #6775
"We're ONDROAD for THEJRNY!" (Toad and Coach license plates, say Hi if you see us!)

Re: Wax Valve Issues

Reply #17 –
Yahoo Message Number: 115819
Just to add to Smitty's excellent write-up. With a properly working Danfoss fan controller, when you first start the engine it's normal for the fan to run on high for 2 to 3 seconds then the fan should slow down. Again this is normal. The fan is very noisy when running on high so there should be no doubt what's going on.

Barney
07 Inspire 52059

Re: Wax Valve Issues

Reply #18 –
Yahoo Message Number: 115822
Thanks for the information Smitty and Barney. Smitty appreciate all the great information that you always give. I will see what I can do in the morning.

Thanks,
Gene
2001 Intrigue

Re: Wax Valve Issues

Reply #19 –
Yahoo Message Number: 115855
Made home with no overheating issues. Went back to the place that worked on the overheating problem in December and they don't remember exactly what was happened but they have the paperwork and need to look to see what they did. Taking it in on Monday.

Thanks again for all of the help on this group,
Gene
2001 Intrigue

Re: Wax Valve Issues

Reply #20 –
Yahoo Message Number: 115863
Glad to hear your home safe Gene. Let us know what you find out Monday.

John Gates
907-244-7709

Re: Wax Valve Issues

Reply #21 –
Yahoo Message Number: 115864
I replaced the S D Fan Controller with the Wax Valve kit from the Source RV guys. I installed it myself but had to remove the upper radiator coolant pipe and have a shop TIG weld the fitting in place. I also had new hydraulic lines made at a local shop. Source RV normally supplies extension hydraulic lines with the wax valve kit but they were out of stock. That was fine as I prefered to replace the hydraulic lines which were 20 years old at that point.

Problem free for 2 years now and I'm very glad I switched to the wax valve setup.

My SD electronic controller was kicking the fan on and off constantly whether idling or driving. It was one heck of a surge when it kicked on. It eventually cracked the hydraulic oil cooler before I could come up with a place to swtich to the wax valve.

- David
'98 Country Coach Concept
98 CC Concept Alpha 40'

Re: Wax Valve Issues

Reply #22 –
Yahoo Message Number: 116704
They installed the wax valve and have completed a 2 week vacation to Arkansas with no problems with over heating. Thanks for all of your help.

Gene
2001 Intrigue 11292