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Charging weirdness

Yahoo Message Number: 117117
Setup:
* 2 8D AGM house batteries
* Xantrex RV 2012 inverter charger with RS7 remote

Situation:
* At rest, batteries show 56% state of charge (SOC) on RS7 and 12.8 V at batteries with meter with house battery switch off.
* I turn on generator, Xantrex shows charging, batteries show 14.4 V.
* On Xantrex, SOC slowly goes DOWN to 28% and stays there.
* I turn on engine, and SOC slowly goes up to about 42%, stops, then slowly goes back to 28%. Turn engine off, no change.
* After about an hour on generator charging , SOC still stuck on 28%.
* Turn off generator, no change.
* Turn on engine, SOC slowly up to 58%.
* Turn everything off, no change.

This is just after a week of being plugged into shore power with 100% SOC throughout. Last bit of info: All the above was in ~32F temp, but coach had been stored with no power in upper 20F temp the previous night.

Make sense to anyone? Thanks very much for any info.

Larry - 2006 Allure.

Re: Charging weirdness

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 117118
I don't have a SOC, but that sounds whacked. I would do all that testing again just watching house battery voltage, 12.8 being full, 12.3 safe empty, and assess that all your charging systems are working properly and forget SOC. You don't need it. Just watch voltage.

Greg
06 Magna

2006 Magna Rembrandt C13
2016 Jeep GC toad

Re: Charging weirdness

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 117119
Larry,

I had the very same invertor/charger in our coach. It was three years old when I trashed it.

We were 2,000 miles from home when I went to pull the slides in. I was hooked up to shore power and had been for a few days. I have 4 large 6 volt Lifeline batteries that were about a year old at the time. The first slide was about half way in when it stopped and the control panel showed a low voltage fault and disconnected.

The panel showed the charger was in float mode at 13.1 volts. Looked good. But when I looked at the amperage it show a negative number! -40 amps when trying to pull the slide in! -4 amps constantly. The charger was showing it was charging when in reality it was discharging the batteries! Xantrex tech support said that is not possible. As usual they were no help. Fortunately we were on the road every day so the engine would keep the batteries charged.

When I got home I threw the Xantrex in the trash and installed a Magnum invertor/charger. Made no other changes, problem solved.

Xantrex products have been junk for years now and their tech support is no better.

Barney
07 Inspire 52059

Re: Charging weirdness

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 117120
Yep, do some at the battery measurements with a multimeter.

Confirm that while the generator is running, the charger is putting in a higher voltage level to your bank. I not, back track the path to the generator.

I'll share that I also saw some unusual behavior when I had one of our four L16 AGM's going South on me. The charger would bring the bank back ip some, but the weakest link was one of my batteries (Self cause problem that resulted in heavy sulfating as I'd 'walked the battery bank' down.) - and I could get some strange readings over an hour or two of total resting. I finally isolated, disconnected the battery cables from each other, after a full cycle of charing followed by Conditioning/Equalizing (Lifeline's). This is how I found the weak link battery.

Hope your's is something simple, caught on by a momentary shuddering after the cold spell:)! Please close the loop back and let us know what you find as root cause...

Best,
Smitty
04 Allure 31017
04 Allure Sold to a nice new owner! Now enjoying a 07 Magna Rembrandt 45' ISX600 #6775
"We're ONDROAD for THEJRNY!" (Toad and Coach license plates, say Hi if you see us!)

Re: Charging weirdness

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 117127
Barney, just need to point out that as opposed to the more sophisticated Xantrex inverters which appear to be very problematic, the Freedom 458 series is considered to be one of the most durable, reliable inverters made. It's not pure sine wave. It doesn't have customizable charge curves, etc., but it will withstand abuse, bad shore, power etcetera. I keep waiting for my 3k to give up the ghost so I can get a more sophisticated Magnum or something, but after 13 years, lots of boondocking, it's still chugging along. I did have to replace the little cooling fan.

Rich 2002 Magna

Re: Charging weirdness

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 117128
Hi Rich,

Couldn't agree more. I replaced my working Freedom 458 (had to replace the small fan also) for a pure sine wave model and had problems from the first time I turned it on. The Remote Control would lock up and give bad readings. Couldn't rely on what it was showing, said it was charging when the charger was turned off!. Xantrex Tech support said it was something in my motor home causing the problems and I would have to figure it out on my own. The remote connected directly to the Inverter/Charger with no connection to anything else. Never could figure out how something in the motor home could effect that. So when the newer unit started giving me more problems (again Tech support said it was something I caused) instead of spending hundreds trying to get it fixed I took the hint and dumped it for a Magnum. It has been rock solid.

Barney
07 Inspire 52059

Re: Charging weirdness

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 117141
Thanks to all. With much checking with a voltmeter, I conclude that the batteries are charging, but the State of Charge reading from the Xantrex inverter/charger is unreliable, especially while charging or just after charging, though it has been cold throughout and I cannot rule out temperature effects.

I am working on a battery and inverter/charger upgrade, so will not worry much about this for now. I appreciate all the help.

Larry - 2006 Allure

Re: Charging weirdness

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 117142
Larry,

I'm considering upgrading my inverter/charger as well. Please let me know what you finally decide on installing? Will you hire it out or do it yourself?

Thanks, John

2003 Allure 36'

Re: Charging weirdness

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 117143
Jill through in my 2 cents go with Magnums

Gary Glenn
Bright Idea RV LED Lights
325-665-4993

Re: Charging weirdness

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 117144
Cheapest place to buy inverters, remotes, combiners, etc is https://www.imarineusa.com/
You have to put the item in the cart to see the real price but it is way cheaper than anywhere else. Plus they have free shipping!
Don
'02 Intrigue 11427
'02 Intrigue #11427

Re: Charging weirdness

Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 117145
My inverter is a Trace RV2012-B20 with a remote Trace RC7-GS panel with remote control gen set starting. Does the Magnum inverter/charger have panels that will do the same functions as well as automatically start the gen set?

John
03 Allure

Re: Charging weirdness

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 117150
I would call magnum. Let them guide you.
2006 Magna 6622
Headed for Paradise

Gary Glenn
Bright Idea RV LED Lights
325-665-4993

Re: Charging weirdness

Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 117154
John,

Our 04 Allure 31017, was built in Sept 2003.

When I upgrade the house battery bank to X's 4 L16's AGM's. And added 1250W of solar, I also shifted to the Magnum series of components.

A quick side bar. Timing wise, I missed two things by about 6-9 months. In that timeframe, Magnum came out with the solar controller (PT100), as fellas a hybrid Inveter/Charge MSH3012. I would have gone with both of these, over what I have - but that's woulda-coulda now:)!

I went with:
-MS2812 PSW (For my stereo equipment, more then anything else.)
-And the sweet of Magnum supporting components: ARC50, BMK Meter/Shunt, Auto Generator Start (AGS) and Smart Battery Combiner (SBC).
-For solar controller, I went with the MidNite Classic 150 and WhzBngJr module, working off of the same Magnum BMK Meter Shunt.
-Battery Temp sensor integration to both the MS2812 and another to the MidNite Classic 150

I would have liked the flexibility of utilizing the Battery Bank for some percentage of power (Set by you!) to augment electricity usage. This is good when say you are on a 20A or 30A power supply, and want to run two or three AC units at the same time. The Battery Bank, via Inverter, adds to the Shore Power available Power Supply. A second time it is good to use, is when you're in a park long enough for them to charge you for Electricity Usage. In expensive regions, say California in the hot times, being able to use your battery supply during the day for 50% or so of your electricity needs - will reduce that bill. (Again, in some regions - that can be substantial!).

I'll note that the MidNite Classic 150 Controller is so far treating me well. One downside to it, is the electric block for wire input's, is restricted in gage size... I'm so far OK, but for some, this can be a factor... Say needing to cut strands out of a larger gage wire feed form your solar...

The only reason I'd have preferred the PT100, it available which it was not, is to make my full system 'Magnum' - for both battery synergy, and, one stop shopping when needing tech support. (No pointing of the fingers at each other:)!).

Enough rambling's:)!

Best to you and all,
Smitty
04 Allure 31017
04 Allure Sold to a nice new owner! Now enjoying a 07 Magna Rembrandt 45' ISX600 #6775
"We're ONDROAD for THEJRNY!" (Toad and Coach license plates, say Hi if you see us!)

Re: Charging weirdness

Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 117155
Wow Smitty, that is wonderful information! Wow! Thanks so much. Did you do the install yourself? Solar panels? All of that wiring? Geesh. I'm afraid I'm over my head.

Can you send pics of your main panel (above the entry door) for me to check out? That would help me to understand better what your dealing with.

Thanks, John

_____
John Gates
'03 Allure #30914