Help Troubleshooting a Non-Starting 36' 2000 Allure 330 ISC w/ Allis

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Help Troubleshooting a Non-Starting 36' 2000 Allure 330 ISC w/ Allis

June 09, 2019, 04:03:41 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 117923

Greetings all,

My sweet lady Allure is beached in my yard and its just awful to see!
Alas, I put the ignition key in and turn it and its absolutely dead.

My first inclination is to makes sure the issue is not a bad chassis battery.

My understanding is that the prior owner replaced all batteries, the Chassis battery and two house AGM LifeLine batteries, about a year or two before I purchased the coach and I've had the coach about six years now so my batteries are probably around seven or eight years old. Might this be their normal life expectancy???

This is why I'd like to rule out the chassis battery first, so I'm looking to test it out.

From what I understand, one way to test the battery is with a dc volt meter and I'm prepared to do this.

However, I'm running into some conflicting information exactly as to how to do this.

I've read that you can do it with either shore power connected, or disconnected. Disconnected seems to make more sense to me, but again, I'm not sure.

I've also read that you should either completely disconnect both post terminals, or just the negative terminal, or neither terminal.

If it is true that I must disconnect any of the chassis battery terminals, I'm running into a bit of a problem because the house batteries are connected to the chassis battery and I'm fearful of the possibility of doing some sort of electrical harm to the coach.

The direction for testing that I'm presently leaning in that I'm not sure about is as follows:

Turning off the coach main power breaker.
Disconnecting from shore power.
Disconnect just the negative terminal of the chassis battery (this means also removing just the negative portion of the house battery connection as well I suppose).
Applying the DC volt meter probes to the posts and looking for something above 12.5 I believe??

I've attached a picture of my battery bay set-up to hopefully aid clarification.

I've also attached an image for a bit of a side-question.
Hopefully the image will speak for itself, but incase it doesn't, the rubber ceiling lining in the middle of the bay is hanging half-way off.

I'm wondering if anyone might know what is the best, or proper type of adhesive to use for this application?

As always, eternal thanks be to the "collective consciousness" for any and all help!

.

-Luke

Re: Help Troubleshooting a Non-Starting 36' 2000 Allure 330 ISC w/ A

Reply #1 – June 09, 2019, 04:24:27 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 117924

Disconnect from shore power. Measure the voltage with a voltmeter across the positive and negative poles of the battery. Should read greater than 12.5V. If these batteries have not been charging during the storage they are probably bad.

Mark

Re: Help Troubleshooting a Non-Starting 36' 2000 Allure 330 ISC w/ A

Reply #2 – June 09, 2019, 07:47:05 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 117925

Has your coach been plugged into shore power while sitting? If not how long has it been disconnected from shower power?

Start with what Mark says and get back with you voltage readings. Do both sets of batteries.

Re: Help Troubleshooting a Non-Starting 36' 2000 Allure 330 ISC w/ A

Reply #3 – June 09, 2019, 09:08:42 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 117926

A light tap on the starter solenoid with a wrench or hammer might produce simple fix. In my 2002 Intrigue that solenoid is in the engine bay on the right side on wall housing the battery compartment. This has saved me twice.

John Coleman
'02 36' Intrigue #11416

Re: Help Troubleshooting a Non-Starting 36' 2000 Allure 330 ISC w/ A

Reply #4 – June 09, 2019, 09:26:29 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 117927

Hi Mark,

Thanks a ton for the help!
The coach has been plugged in during storage. Either 30 or 50 amp.

OK, disconnect from shore power it is.

However, just to be clear... I'm NOT to disconnect anything?
Is this right?

Re: Help Troubleshooting a Non-Starting 36' 2000 Allure 330 ISC w/ A

Reply #5 – June 09, 2019, 09:31:48 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 117929

Hi pfhays2000,
And thank you so much for your help.

Yes, coach pretty much always plugged in to either 30 or 50 amp shore.
She's on 50 amp now and has been since the end of April.

By both sets of batteries, do you mean touch probes to chassis battery and then each AGM house battery separately?
Or just the chassis battery, and then to just one of the two AGMs for a reading of the two AGMs as a set??

I'm very sorry, I'm not exactly clear on what you mean by "both sets"

.

Thank you very much again.

Re: Help Troubleshooting a Non-Starting 36' 2000 Allure 330 ISC w/ A

Reply #6 – June 09, 2019, 09:40:11 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 117930

Hi John,

Thank you for the input!
OK, so once I locate this starter solenoid I'll tap it.

Does the tap have to happen while someone else is trying to start the coach?
Or can you tap and then start?

And if this works does it mean I have a starter solenoid problem? Or what might it mean??

Thanks so much again.

Cheers,
-Luke

Re: Help Troubleshooting a Non-Starting 36' 2000 Allure 330 ISC w/ A

Reply #7 – June 09, 2019, 10:45:01 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 117931

One person task. I'm the wrong person to describe how that solenoid works, but I understand the inside of solenoid can get get rust or corrosion or something that prevents the moving parts inside the solenoid from connecting when the ignition key sends power to the solenoid. A gentle tap can loosen those internal parts so they freely move, thereby completing the circuit and sending power to the starter the next time you turn ignition key.

If the engine starts after tapping the solenoid you'll probably ought to replace it. That said, when I bought my coach in 2013 the prior owner told me he encountered the problem once and tapped the solenoid... would've been about 2011. So happened that summer 2017 I turned the ignition key and nothing happened. Remembering other discussions on this forum and from what prior owner told me, I tapped that solenoid just once and sure enough it started up. I haven't replaced it and haven't encountered the problem since. I've now put solenoid replacement on the top of my punch list.

Re: Help Troubleshooting a Non-Starting 36' 2000 Allure 330 ISC w/ A

Reply #8 – June 09, 2019, 10:57:33 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 117932

Just a Note!
Do not disconnect battery either set with shore power connected , as it will take out the echo charger if the inverter charger on !!

Re: Help Troubleshooting a Non-Starting 36' 2000 Allure 330 ISC w/ A

Reply #9 – June 10, 2019, 08:04:32 am

Yahoo Message Number: 117933

Mark, let's do two checks. First, does your transmission pad light up when you turn the ignition on? Since your coach is different than mine it may be wired differently. I assume you have a fuse panel in the compartment under the driver's seat. Look at that fuse panel and see if the lights beside the fuses on the row nearest you are lit while the ignition switch is turned on. These fuse circuits will be activated when the key is turned on if things are okay with your ignition circuit. Dead house batteries will also fail to activate the ignition circuit so go ahead and check the battery voltages.

Given the way your batteries are connected, test the voltage on each set of batteries by putting a probe on one of the positive terminals of the chassis batteries and putting the other probe on one of the negative terminals of the chassis batteries. Do not be connected to shore power at this time. Do the same on the house batteries. Since each set of batteries are connected in parallel you can't get individual battery voltage without disconnecting wires. No need to do that right now.

Plug the coach back into shore power and do the same measurements.

You are trying to determine if your batteries are being charged while plugged into shore power. I assume you have your charger turned on while being plugged into shore power and you didn't accidentally turn it off. If your charger is turned off plug back into shore power, turn on the charger and wait until the batteries are charged before trying to start the coach.

If the house batteries show voltage above 12 volts, try starting the coach by using the boost switch inside your coach. You can leave your coach plugged in while trying to use the boost switch. I have no idea where your boost switch is located but it will be labelled. On my coach it is in the small console under the driver's side window. Hold the boost switch on for about 20 seconds and while still holding the boost switch on try starting the coach. Take notice of the transmission pad while trying to start the coach and see if it lights up.

Come back with your results.

pete
2000 Magna CAT C-10, #5892

Re: Help Troubleshooting a Non-Starting 36' 2000 Allure 330 ISC w/ A

Reply #10 – June 10, 2019, 11:26:41 am

Yahoo Message Number: 117936

Very possible that at age 7-8, the Chassis Battery could be ready for replacement. If your test shows a good voltage, then another tip is to for now, just loosen and twist back and forth the battery cable connections on the posts - this will make sure you have good contacts. Retighten, and then again try your starting of the coach. Another area that I do a yearly maintenance on, is the ground. Follow your negative cable off of the chassis, and see where it connects to the ground. Same thing can be done here too, loosen the bolt/nut, and twist back and forth a bit on the connection wires end. Tighten, and try again to restart the coach. I also followed the Positive cable feed from Chassis to Starter, and cleaned all of the connection to the starter too.

If that is it, and it fires up. Then go into a deep cleaning on the cable connects, and apply protective coat over them. (Be sure all power to the coach is off. Turn off inverter. Before doing this deep cleaning.

Only reason I say to just do the light loosen and twisting technique at fist, is if the battery is bad, it will need to be replaced. And normally the cleaning of the connections and posts to get the shine of the metal, would happen then.

This may not sound like it's a good thing, but to me, I hope it's a simple faded, or fading, Chassis Battery that needs replacement!

Best of luck to you,
Smitty
04 Allure 31017

Re: Help Troubleshooting a Non-Starting 36' 2000 Allure 330 ISC w/ A

Reply #11 – June 10, 2019, 01:08:43 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 117937

Wow, that's quite a story.
Seems like such a simple thing that has the potential to cause some big problems.

I am going to look into it.
If anything is worthy of reporting back here, I will do so.

Thanks a ton for this.

Re: Help Troubleshooting a Non-Starting 36' 2000 Allure 330 ISC w/ A

Reply #12 – June 10, 2019, 01:13:41 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 117938

Wow!
OK
THANK YOU!!

Re: Help Troubleshooting a Non-Starting 36' 2000 Allure 330 ISC w/ A

Reply #13 – June 10, 2019, 01:50:31 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 117939

Thanks a ton Smitty for this information and advice!!!!

I do have some outstanding questions however about how to properly do the actual testing that I outlined in my original post.

Might you be able to speak to any of these things?

Re: Help Troubleshooting a Non-Starting 36' 2000 Allure 330 ISC w/ A

Reply #14 – June 10, 2019, 04:15:32 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 117940

Just want to say that I figured out how to test and I posted my results in my response to Pete.
Thanks again for all your help!

Re: Help Troubleshooting a Non-Starting 36' 2000 Allure 330 ISC w/ A

Reply #15 – June 10, 2019, 04:41:22 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 117942

Pete,
I'd first like to give a huge debt of gratitude for your kindness and help.

"does your transmission pad light up when you turn the ignition on?"

Wow, where do I start...

I turned the ignition key and heard sounds and saw sights that I'd never experienced before.
There where two sounds that I can tell. The first, a sort of loud "winding sound" coming from somewhere under the dashboard. It sort of sounded like the loud whizzing sound I hear when my AC blower is on full speed, as the fan at that speed sounds like its rubbing on something.

The second sound, sounded like another loud periodic sound, but it was a loud "clicking" sound that felt like something sort of under the driver's side.

Well, as I was freaking out a bit with all the new sights and sounds, I did happen to have the presence of mind to check the the tranny pad display, and wouldn't you know it, it looked pretty strange too.
It looked like every area of it was lit and not just one particular symbol which looked really weird, almost like something you see on one of these tv shows about crashed alien space ships.

"Look at that fuse panel and see if the lights beside the fuses on the row nearest you are lit while the ignition switch is turned on. These fuse circuits will be activated when the key is turned on if things are okay with your ignition circuit."

While I found a couple of fuse boxes, they weren't under the driver's seat.
These guys are on the bottom-left floor area up against the left side of the coach, sort of adjacent to the steering column. Unfortunately, I did not have enough presence of mind with all the new found bells and whistles to crouch back down on the floor to check out the fuses. I just quickly shut it off not knowing if the whole coach was going to blow up or not.

Battery Test Results(V):

NOT plugged into shore

Chassis - Left Side: 10.68
House 1 - Middle: 12.57
House 2 - Right Side: 12.60

Plugged into shore

Chassis - Left Side: 13.03
House 1 - Middle: 13.48
House 2 - Right Side: 13.49

I do believe my charger is on as I do not recall ever turning it off. Plus, I've seen my batteries charge in the not too distant past.

Results of attempting start with boost switch:

I'm going to hold off on doing this until I hear back from you about the above.
In light of these things, I'm thinking perhaps a boost start might not be needed as It looks like the chassis battery is faulty no?

Re: Help Troubleshooting a Non-Starting 36' 2000 Allure 330 ISC w/ A

Reply #16 – June 10, 2019, 05:30:40 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 117944

The chassis battery, at 10.68 volts, is dead. Replace it and you'll have a better chance of starting the coach.

At rest the battery should be at least 12.6 volts.

Good luck.

George in Birmingham
'03 Magna 6298

Re: Help Troubleshooting a Non-Starting 36' 2000 Allure 330 ISC w/ A

Reply #17 – June 10, 2019, 08:52:45 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 117950

I think George has a good suggestion.

It appears from your original photo that the chassis battery has battery caps that allow you to add water if needed. Have you ever checked the water in that battery? If not, get in the habit to do it at least on a monthly basis on the new battery. As the generator needs to be run once a month, I run it if I haven't used it during the month and check the water level in all of my batteries on the first of the month. Makes it easy for this old mind to remember.

I believe what you saw on the transmission display may have been that all of the segments in the led display light up at the same time. That can happen with low voltage which you have with your current chassis battery.

What you have learned from your battery voltage readings is that you battery charger is working and the auxiliary charger, usually an Echo Charger, for the chassis battery is working.

If you get a new chassis battery and it solves your problem, please come back and let us know.

pete
2000 Magna CAT C-10, #5892

Re: Help Troubleshooting a Non-Starting 36' 2000 Allure 330 ISC w/ A

Reply #18 – June 10, 2019, 09:55:41 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 117954

Yeah I do check that battery water fairly often although not once a month and I think I've only ever had to had water to a cell or two a couple times over the years. The battery is an interstate battery and its been pretty solid for the six years I've owned it but I guess all good things must come to an end

.

I do very much intend on replacing the battery now thanks to your help in figuring out how to test it!
Should I just get another interstate? Or is there another brand that might be more preferable?

I will most definitely keep you all posted here.
You guys really are my life line as I basically inherited this coach and I'm sort of a "babe-in-the-woods" with it.

Thanks about 16 tons worth! lol

Re: Help Troubleshooting a Non-Starting 36' 2000 Allure 330 ISC w/ A

Reply #19 – June 10, 2019, 10:04:22 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 117955

Thanks a ton George.
I'm definitely going to replace it.

Its an interstate battery that, outside of only having to had add water to the couple of cells a few times over the past six years, has performed admirably.
Should I just get another one?
Or, is there another brand that might be more preferable to an interstate?

I will be keeping you guys posted as to my progress

.

Thanks a ton again!

Re: Help Troubleshooting a Non-Starting 36' 2000 Allure 330 ISC w/ A

Reply #20 – June 10, 2019, 11:15:44 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 117956

I would certainly invest in the Lifeline batteries.
2006 Magna 6622
Suffering from HOT BUNS IN AZ..

Gary Glenn
Bright Idea RV LED Lights
325-665-4993

Re: Help Troubleshooting a Non-Starting 36' 2000 Allure 330 ISC w/ A

Reply #21 – June 10, 2019, 11:21:29 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 117957

If going traditional wet cell check Sam's club or Costco. They generally have the best price on wet cells..

Ray

Re: Help Troubleshooting a Non-Starting 36' 2000 Allure 330 ISC w/ A

Reply #22 – June 11, 2019, 12:56:38 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 117965

So, as far as changing the battery out, I found this article online:
https://www.impactbattery.com/blog/2012/08/how-to-replace-your-rv-batteries/

Now I was wondering... should I have the replacement battery on hand and ready-to-install as soon as I remove the old battery?

Or is ok to first take the old battery in to the dealer to get the core-charge credit and not have to make two trips, and let the wires hang out without a chassis battery attached.
Something about this option doesn't feel, or seem right but I thought I'd run it by you guys.

Thanks much again.

Re: Help Troubleshooting a Non-Starting 36' 2000 Allure 330 ISC w/ A

Reply #23 – June 11, 2019, 01:30:09 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 117967

Pictures of connections and plastic wire ties to keep speared and from grounding helps. And six years was a good run!

Robert Mcclernon
2000 Intrigue

Re: Help Troubleshooting a Non-Starting 36' 2000 Allure 330 ISC w/ A

Reply #24 – June 11, 2019, 01:54:14 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 117968

Taking the battery out and then getting a new one should not impact anything. Once the battery is out, whether it be for 10 minutes or 3 hours, doesn't change anything.

Tom
2007 Allure # 31570
'18 Silverado M&G Braking System

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