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Alternator not charging house batteries.

Yahoo Message Number: 8902
New Batteries put into van last week. Have noted the set of ouse batteries are not being charged and now down to 12.5 after being on shore power for three days and driving from Tucson to Palm Springs and then San Diego. I Noted that engine battery voltage increases from 12.6 to 13.95 when engine running, but house batteries stay at 12.47. Any suggestions of what I should check next??? Inverter is on both at power panel and on the remote.

Re: Alternator not charging house batteries.

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 8903
Hi Bodie,

This has been a subject covered many times.
The battery tie solenoid which is located generally to the left of the inverter along with the OEM oil pressure switch are the suspects. When the engine is started the oil pressure switch is closed about 3 sec after engine start. When closed it supplies a ground to the battery tie solenoid to couple the house battery bank to the start battery.
Consult your schematics for the detailed wiring.
You can try this - with the engine off, cycle the battery tie rocker switch several times, this may cause the battery voltage to go up slightly. If it does, then the solenoid has dirty contacts. If it doesn't, then the oil pressure switch is an additional suspect. If you have to replace the solenoid, be sure it is mounted vertically like all the rest of the solenoids on your coach.
Fred Kovol
swi

Quote from: Bodie6413@a\.\.\.
New Batteries put into van last week. Have noted the set of ouse

batteries

Quote
are not being charged and now down to 12.5 after being on shore

power for

Quote
three days and driving from Tucson to Palm Springs and then San
Diego. I Noted

Quote
that engine battery voltage increases from 12.6 to 13.95 when engine

running, but

Quote
house batteries stay at 12.47. Any suggestions of what I should

check

Re: Alternator not charging house batteries.

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 8913
We drove our coach for two years before we discovered the coach was incorrectly wired and the house batteries were not being charged going down the road.

Re: Alternator not charging house batteries.

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 8924
Bodie,

Not sure if we have same situation or not? Your subject says "alternator not charging" and part of your message states - "noted the set of ouse batteries are not being charged and now down to 12.5 after being on shore power for three days-".
First after hooking to shore power your house batteries should start out charging at about 13.63 volts and slowly go down to 13.29 volts.
After 3 days on shore power that is where you should be, not the 12.5 volts you mentioned. This is what my house batteries are after hooking up to shore power.

ALTERNATOR NOT CHARGING- Here is where I'm not sure. After returning from a trip last week and with my engine ON, I checked my engine battery and the volts were 13.65V. My house batteries with the engine running were 12.32 volts. I was sure my alternator was not charging my house batteries but only the engine battery.

I called CC tech support and their response was basically it is working OK. They said that the house batteries at 12.32 volts were not low enough for the alternator to start charging them. Tech said there is an isolator built in that only kicks in when the house batteries get "low". He also said this isolator only will charge either the "engine battery" or the "house batteries" one at a time but not both together. He could not tell me how low the house batteries have to get before the alternator started charging them.

How do I tell if my alternator will charge my house batteries? Don't know unless I run them down below 12volts and see if they start charging.

Has anyone on the group checked their house batteries with their engine running? Are you charging both the engine and house batteries simultaneously while in this mode? My reading are as follows:

Engine running: Engine battery = 13.65V Engine running: House batteries=12.32V

Engine OFF: Engine battery = 13.21V Engine OFF: House battery = 12.32V

If your reading are different let us know.

Thanks, Ed
98 Allure

- In Country-Coach-Owners@yahoogroups.com, Bodie6413@a... wrote:
Quote
New Batteries put into van last week. Have noted the set of ouse

batteries

Quote
are not being charged and now down to 12.5 after being on shore

power for

Quote
three days and driving from Tucson to Palm Springs and then San
Diego. I Noted

Quote
that engine battery voltage increases from 12.6 to 13.95 when
engine running, but

Quote
house batteries stay at 12.47. Any suggestions of what I should

check

Re: Alternator not charging house batteries.

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 8926
Hi Ed,

Back in '98, CCI might have done things differently - namely how the engine start and house batteries were charged from the alternator.
So it is important to check your wiring diagrams and schematics as what you have mechanized may be quite different on the newer coaches.
On my late 2000 Allure, a tie soleniod connects all batteries in parallel about 3 seconds after engine start. Only if the solenoid contacts are burnt or the OEM oil pressure switch is bad would there be a problem for the house battery bank getting a charge. I have added current sensors on the battery cabling so charging can be monitored.
Fred Kovol

Re: Alternator not charging house batteries.

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 8927
Fred,

Thanks for the info. I had read earlier posts of yours, some were months ago and some more recent, dealing with the tie solenoid. I will read the schematics as you suggest and see if I can make some headway into this. My schematic ability is somewhat limited, but I do get by with it. If I find out more on this situation with my particular coach, I will post my findings. Thanks again. ED

Re: Alternator not charging house batteries.

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 8928
Hi Ed, Some additional information.
When on shore or generator power, things are in reverse.
The inverter/charger (converter) has a time delay and then charges the house battery bank first (brutle amperage - 120-160 amps initially while the alternator is usually in the 40-50 amp range) then via the echo charger, the start battery is charged at a much lower amperage.
After about 0.5 hours of charging the start battery will be about 0.
1-0.4 vdc less than the house battery bank. Voltages and charging
rates are dependent on ambient air temperature and condition of battery. The numbers you quoted are +/- 0.5 vdc even from coach to coach. And the converter has 3 stages of charge, so it's the final stage that the voltage should be measured.
Fred Kovol

Re: Alternator not charging house batteries.

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 8951
Thanks for the response Ed. Got new batteries and installed solar and still not sure the alternator is working. Will exist on solar and wait until next CC Rally and let them check it out. Can't get appointment into the local CC shop for months so have given up on getting any support at all from them

Ron and Molly, San Diego, 01 Intrigue 11262

Re: Alternator not charging house batteries.

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 9063
Ed,

Just a few comments concerning "Tech said there is an isolator built in that only kicks in when the house batteries get "low". He also said this isolator only will charge either the "engine battery" or the "house batteries" one at a time but not both together." Country Coach stopped using an isolator when CC began making their own chassis, sometime around '96-'97. At that time they went to a 'Boost Solenoid' which ties the chassis batteries to the house batteries when engine oil pressure is above 4-6psi or when the 'Boost' switch is pressed and held.
As far as I understand the isolators they used, there wasn't any 'smarts' in them. The isolators could not decided the batteries were low and they needed to be charged or any form there of. The isolator couldn't decide to charge one battery or another either.
Since your coach is a '98, I'll bet you have the boost solenoid that should tie the chassis/house batteries together after the engine has started.

To test the boost solenoid; make sure your house batteries are being charged via the inverter/charger. The house batterry voltage will be above 13Vdc.

Turn ignition on. (Do NOT start the engine) Note the chassis battery voltage on the driver's gauge. It will probably be 12Vdc or less.

Press and hold the 'Boost' switch. You should here an audible 'click' as the solenoid contacts engage and the chassis battery voltage should raise to the approximate level of the house batteries.

It's a simple test that should tell you the boost solenoid at least has the ability to work if it's asked to. Checking the boost solenoid while the engine is running is relatively simple too, but requires a voltmeter or an inverter/charger remote panel that will show volts.

Hope this helps.
Bob

Quote from: eav2001

Bodie,

Not sure if we have same situation or not? Your subject > says "alternator not charging" and part of your message states - > "noted the set of ouse batteries are not being charged and now

down

Quote
to 12.5 after being on shore power for three days-".

First after hooking to shore power your house batteries should

start

Quote
out charging at about 13.63 volts and slowly go down to 13.29

volts.

Quote
After 3 days on shore power that is where you should be, not the

12.5

Quote
volts you mentioned. This is what my house batteries are after > hooking up to shore power.

ALTERNATOR NOT CHARGING- Here is where I'm not sure. After

returning

Quote
from a trip last week and with my engine ON, I checked my engine > battery and the volts were 13.65V. My house batteries with the > engine running were 12.32 volts. I was sure my alternator was not > charging my house batteries but only the engine battery.

I called CC tech support and their response was basically it is > working OK. They said that the house batteries at 12.32 volts were > not low enough for the alternator to start charging them. Tech

said

Quote
there is an isolator built in that only kicks in when the house > batteries get "low". He also said this isolator only will charge > either the "engine battery" or the "house batteries" one at a time > but not both together. He could not tell me how low the house > batteries have to get before the alternator started charging them.

How do I tell if my alternator will charge my house batteries? > Don't know unless I run them down below 12volts and see if they

start

Quote
charging.

Has anyone on the group checked their house batteries with their > engine running? Are you charging both the engine and house

batteries

Alternator not charging house batteries

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 8932
Based on the voltage reading that you quoted, that is --- shows the same voltage when the engine is running and not running indicates to me that you may have the same problem that I had. That is that the solenoid or the oil pressure sense switch has gone bad. Call up CC and get to the tech support folks. They can tell you how to check the voltage readings on the oil pressure sensor switch located on the engine and the solenoid. If that switch is closed, (I think) when the engine is running then it is most likely that you have a bad solenoid. The solenoid ties together the power coming from the alternator to both the engine and house batteries. You can then test to see if power has crossed the switch when the engine is running. Assuming that the oil switch is OK, and the voltage is NOT coming across the solenoid, then you will have a bad solenoid. They have upgraded that solenoid recently to a more rugged duty (aircraft rated) switch. They sent me the new version, well over $100.00, but it is a much heavier duty switch. I took apart the old solenoid and sure enough, one of the contacts was burned quite badly. The tech support guys can tell you where the solenoid and oil pressure sense switches are located on your coach.

Good luck

Denny Zarnt 2001 CC Affinity # 5972 - All Electric

Re: Alternator not charging house batteries

Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 8953
Denny, Thanks for post. I did find some information in my owners manual dealing with battery charging.. It states that the ECHO CHARGER is installed across the battery boost solenoid. The Echo Charge monitors the battery voltage on the domestic battery (during charging) and when the domestic battery voltage reaches "13 volts or above" it will then connect the domestic battery to the chassis battery at a 15 amp charge rate and begin the chassis battery charging. When the battery is fully charged the ECHO CHARGER will turn itself off until the batteries need charging again.

This information is different than I was told by a CC Tech earlier this week. He said there is an ISOLATOR (his term) that prevents both batteries from charging at the same time. Further he said that at 12.32volts (my domestic battery readings with the engine running) were not low enough for them to begin charging?From what I read and what you have posted I definitely have a problem. I will be calling them again tomorrow and, using your information, I will ask them for help in checking for voltages on the solenoid.

Thanks for the heads up. ED