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handling problems, etc

Yahoo Message Number: 9336
If you are one that subscribes to the theory that criticism should never be posted here, cancel it now.
We have had handling problems with our 03 Allure since taking delivery. It has been back to Junction City for service 4 times. Our last attempt with the dealer, Guaranty, resulted in our arriving on Saturday to continue our trip [after a week in the shop] to find that they had decided not to proceed with alignment since CC had refused to pay for it. Had they notified us earlier in the week we would have paid for it ourselves. Consequently we left on a 2500 mile trip with dangerous handling. And it was a miserable 2500 miles.
Next, we left the coach with CC for a few weeks. Their solution was to lower tire pressures to 75#. They drove it and pronounced it normal. We put it in storage for the next 10 months, planning to address the handing ourselves before the next trip. That time came last month. We started with the new Michelins on the front and then an alignment, the one CC said we didn't need. The front-end toe-in was seriously overset and the right caster was out as far as the shop had ever seen. The technician told us exactly how it had been handling, i.e. impossible to keep it straight, darting off in unpredictable directions, pulling to the right, and impossible to know where it would head coming out of a dip. He was right on. Someone asked why CC would use tires that may not be the best for handling. Why would they send coaches out the door that are far out of alignment. It baffles us.
The handling is now safe, but not good. It still takes constant attention, but at least we don't have to over-steer in anticipation of wind buffeting, broken highway surfaces, etc. Before the next trip we will add a Blue-Ox steering system, larger sway bars, and 4 new rear tires.
We spent two days getting service around Eugene. New tires were from Wyatt's. The alignment was at Keizer Brake & Alignment, and service was at Cummins Coach Care in Coburg. All three firms were outstanding. The Keizer crew noticed that the coach wouldn't hold air for more than 15 minutes, a problem we have tried to get fixed at least twice. After the alignment they worked us into their afternoon schedule, replacing the three worst cracked brass fittings. All three were broken as the result of over-torquing with an air wrench--a no with brass. We now can hold air for a day--more fittings yet to change. The mechanic said they had told the factory about the problem many times but CC is still doing it. Why? A good question. Probably because the sealer slows the leak until it begins to dry out about a year or two later.
On to Coach Care Friday morning for routine service. They are terrific. The boss and the tech had 24 years at CC between them. They went well beyond routine service including addressing the axle-bolt recall, the non-functioning Hurricane, and the rear vision camera. They couldn't have been more helpful, even when they had to scramble to get two more techs to deal with the extra issues. Their charge, considering that we were there all day, and considering all of the extra issues, was very fair.
How did CC handle our request for some help with the faulty backup camera, dash air, and Hurricane? Considering that the coach hadn't been used since it had been at CC for service, we expected to be able to drop by CC service and have a tech make sure we were programming them correctly. A call early in the week to the supervisor we had worked with resulted in a call back, from a scheduler, a day later, to tell us no one would have time to see us. The fact that we were outward-bound on vacation and that CC had just "fixed" the non-functioning items, made no difference. They wouldn't even have their best tech, Jake Smith, call us.
So, if the majority of this group subscribes to the approach that no criticism should ever be posted, this will be our last. We subscribe to the theory that businesses that do not deliver quality products and customer service should fail. If, however, anyone is interested in how CC addresses the bills they are going to receive from us, or how they address our demand for an entirely new diesel heat system, let me know.

Doug Rosenberg

[503] 842-7671
03 Allure 30929

Re: handling problems, etc

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 9339
Hi Doug,

This is the biggest problem I have with CCI - to keep up with the Jones, they rush unproven new inovations into production and lack the effective feedback loop for correction of old problems that continue to exist.

If you look at NVH on yahoo finance and compare them to the rest of the motorhome industry - they are at the bottom on sales. They build a fine looking coach and hopefully under the new management - things will get better. A few concept coaches at the ralleys would be a great step forward - see if folks like the new inovations introduced and drive them for a year to prove their reliability.
Fred Kovol

Re: handling problems, etc

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 9340
-Doug, your post is very informative. I guess I thought CCI was above that sort of service. Only reason I bought a CC was to be able to Avoid going to the local RV dealer and have his techs turn my coach into a hobby or worse yet screw it up to the point of disaster. I thought; I'll get a CC or Alpine , close to the factory and good service. Well, we were told Alpine doesn't service at the factory and now

it sounds as if CCI doesn't do such a great job either. I guess I'm not surprised, this is the story of my RV life. I guess CCI make a good product, but so do others and we really like some of the others better except, we wanted factory service.
I guess I'll withhold judgement until I have a first hand experience but

your story is one that is all too familiar about RV service Thanks for your post, I'm not one that is offended by stories that are not all warm and fuzzy.
Larry

'99 Affinity-- In Country-Coach-

Owners@yahoogroups.com, "Doug Rosenberg" wrote:
Quote
If you are one that subscribes to the theory that criticism should
never be posted here, cancel it now.

Quote
>

We have had handling problems with our 03 Allure since taking
delivery. It has been back to Junction City for service 4 times.
Our last attempt with the dealer, Guaranty, resulted in our arriving on Saturday to continue our trip [after a week in the shop] to find that they had decided not to proceed with alignment since CC had refused to pay for it. Had they notified us earlier in the week we would have paid for it ourselves. Consequently we left on a 2500 mile trip with dangerous handling. And it was a miserable 2500 miles.

Quote
>

Next, we left the coach with CC for a few weeks. Their solution
was to lower tire pressures to 75#. They drove it and pronounced it normal. We put it in storage for the next 10 months, planning to address the handing ourselves before the next trip. That time came last month. We started with the new Michelins on the front and then an alignment, the one CC said we didn't need. The front-end toe-in was seriously overset and the right caster was out as far as the shop had ever seen. The technician told us exactly how it had been handling, i.e. impossible to keep it straight, darting off in unpredictable directions, pulling to the right, and impossible to know where it would head coming out of a dip. He was right on.
Someone asked why CC would use tires that may not be the best for handling. Why would they send coaches out the door that are far out of alignment. It baffles us.

Quote
>

The handling is now safe, but not good. It still takes constant
attention, but at least we don't have to over-steer in anticipation of wind buffeting, broken highway surfaces, etc. Before the next trip we will add a Blue-Ox steering system, larger sway bars, and 4 new rear tires.

Quote
>

We spent two days getting service around Eugene. New tires were
from Wyatt's. The alignment was at Keizer Brake & Alignment, and service was at Cummins Coach Care in Coburg. All three firms were outstanding. The Keizer crew noticed that the coach wouldn't hold air for more than 15 minutes, a problem we have tried to get fixed at least twice. After the alignment they worked us into their afternoon schedule, replacing the three worst cracked brass fittings. All three were broken as the result of over-torquing with an air wrench-- a no with brass. We now can hold air for a day--more fittings yet to change. The mechanic said they had told the factory about the problem many times but CC is still doing it. Why? A good question.
Probably because the sealer slows the leak until it begins to dry out about a year or two later.

Quote
>

On to Coach Care Friday morning for routine service. They are
terrific. The boss and the tech had 24 years at CC between them.
They went well beyond routine service including addressing the axle- bolt recall, the non-functioning Hurricane, and the rear vision camera. They couldn't have been more helpful, even when they had to scramble to get two more techs to deal with the extra issues. Their charge, considering that we were there all day, and considering all of the extra issues, was very fair.

Quote
>

How did CC handle our request for some help with the faulty backup
camera, dash air, and Hurricane? Considering that the coach hadn't been used since it had been at CC for service, we expected to be able to drop by CC service and have a tech make sure we were programming them correctly. A call early in the week to the supervisor we had worked with resulted in a call back, from a scheduler, a day later, to tell us no one would have time to see us. The fact that we were outward-bound on vacation and that CC had just "fixed" the non- functioning items, made no difference. They wouldn't even have their best tech, Jake Smith, call us.

Quote
>

So, if the majority of this group subscribes to the approach that
no criticism should ever be posted, this will be our last. We subscribe to the theory that businesses that do not deliver quality products and customer service should fail. If, however, anyone is interested in how CC addresses the bills they are going to receive from us, or how they address our demand for an entirely new diesel heat system, let me know.

Re: handling problems, etc

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 9352
Doug, I just have a question: why would you put your new motor home in storage for 10 months of the 12 month CC factory warranty? When you purchased your coach you must have signed a card for the 12 month warranty at the time of delivery. If 2 months into ownership you were having issues, why didnt you let CC work on it instead of putting the problem into a storage facility. We had an issue with our coach, we left it at CC and flew home. CC goes the extra mile the first 12 mo if you go to JC.

Re: handling problems, etc

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 9354
Doug:

Contrary to your experience with CC, mine has been exemplary. Granted, my coach is still in the one year warranty period during which time I have had a number of problems. Some were significant and others amounted to nits. Whenever I approached CC, whether on the road or while in JC, the response was immediate and "Can Do."
Here is one example which typifies the type of service I have received; the inside front wheel hubs leaked gear oil which was identified in a Holland Neway Service Bulletin last summer. In March just before the Tucson Rally, I had my coach in for service at Beaudry RV. At that time there were about four CC Techs there in addition to Chris Snyder who is the permanently assigned field rep. After the seals were replaced, I noticed that the tires had become covered with the oil. Chris and I discussed the possibility of tire damage. He then called JC who within 24 hours responded that CC would replace the tires. They arrived in the bay of one of those new 05 Magnas the following week.
As long as we are on the tire subject, all eight of mine are Toyos and as described in my earlier posts, I have had no problems with them and the coach rides like a dream. In fact, I tried and can steer with two fingers steadying the wheel. Removing my hands from the wheel all together the coach tracks straight. There was one time, however when the high temp alarm sounded on the Smart Tire. I told CC and they, without question, put the coach on the diagnostic machine. It turned out to be a faulty sensor and replaced by Les Schwab.
My coach was delivered with 90 lbs in the front tires, 95 lbs in the rear, and 100 in the tags. I know this is a hot topic, but I still carry that amount after speaking with RVSEF, Les Schwab, and Toyo.
Someone made mention that CC is too quick to put in unproven innovations and feed back is lacking. At the rally in Eugene last September, CC had contacted about 5 couples of varying experience to participate in a focus group. My wife and I were one of them. The attendees were the upper CC management, the three Howards and Bob Lee. We met three times in a no holds barred format. They listened and we all talked, no subject off limits. Some of our input may be found in those new 2005 coaches. So, yes, there is feedback which hopefully will only improve as time passes. As far as innovations, you make your best choice and give them a try. It is called progress and we learn by trying.
I could go on and know this doesn't explain or help your unfortunate situation. I for one would like to think that yours is the extreme exception for some unknown reason. Why not mail a copy of your email to Jay Howard for his response? From what I witnessed at the focus group, he would be receptive and has "a need to know."

Chuck Penque

03 Intrigue 11673

Re: handling problems, etc

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 9356
I probably did not explain the entire sequence properly. The coach did go to CC for a number of weeks before it went into storage. It was our mistake to store it without a few days of use to check out all of the repairs.
However, we didn't buy the coach to have it run our lives. It was supposed to serve us, not the other way around. When CC said they fixed things like the dash air, we believed them.

Actually we were pleased with the CC service personnel on that visit. We also think they made an effort to fix all of the problems. The effort on the handling problem just wasn't adequate and the Hurricane and dash air still don't work. Our complaint about their service was their refusal to look at these problems without weeks of notice when we discovered the problems last month.

Doug 30929

Re: handling problems, etc

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 9357
You write a great later and my experience has been the same as I have mentioned in the past. Country has always gone the distance, whether my coach was a 5year old Allure or a new 2004 Introgue. They are great people. TOM/CAROL 11731, 30255

Re: handling problems, etc

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 9359
Doug,

If the coach sits for 10 months do you take it out and drive it every 6 week to 8 weeks? 10 months of storage is the worst thing you can do to a coach.
Nothing will work right after that. We start our Hurrican up once a month regardless of what time of year it is just to keep it working right. And I take the coach on the road for an hour every 6 weeks.

Bill G. 2001 Magna #5998

Re: handling problems, etc

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 9360
I agree with Dale Hollick's comments about CC "going the extra mile" to make things right.....even after initial 12 month warranty. We had a problem with our Intrigue (broken bolts causing us to lose our mud flap in the middle of Friday afternoon traffic on the Interstate in St. Louis). I communicated the situation to Doug Beaudry, and when we arrived in Junction City, they agreed this should not have happened. They replaced the damaged mud flap with no charge. They easily could have said "Sorry...out of warranty!", but they didn't do this. All coaches will have problems, but our experience with both the absence of serious problems and response when we do have a problem makes us feel that CC stands well above all other coach makers.

Don Page - 2001 Intrigue #11209

Re: handling problems, etc

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 9361
I agree with Dale Hollick's comments about CC "going the extra mile" to make things right.....even after initial 12 month warranty. We had a problem with our Intrigue (broken bolts causing us to lose our mud flap in the middle of Friday afternoon traffic on the Interstate in St. Louis). I communicated the situation to Doug Beaudry, and when we arrived in Junction City, they agreed this should not have happened. They replaced the damaged mud flap with no charge. They easily could have said "Sorry...out of warranty!", but they didn't do this. All coaches will have problems, but our experience with both the absence of serious problems and response when we do have a problem makes us feel that CC stands well above all other coach makers.

Don Page - 2001 Intrigue #11209

Re: handling problems, etc

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 9367
Re: handling problems. Don't complain about handling in a CC until you have weighed your coach correctly and set the tire pressures according to the manufacturer's recommendations. We had similar problems to yours after taking delivery of our CC and someone on this forum suggested the above. I pooh poohed it, but still went ahead and got it weighed correctly, set the pressures, and voila...a different handling coach! Made a true believer out of us! Do the easy stuff first!

Jan McNeill, Fulltimer

2001 Intrigue 1132 33,000 miles and going...

Re: handling problems, etc

Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 9586
I am getting in on this a few weeks late, but I only check in once in a while to add my 2 cents and see what is going on.

I have to say that I have friends who have been frustrated with CC and others who think it is fabulous. Even those I know that were frustrated at one point, have gotten things squared away and feel they were treated well and everything ended well for the most part.

Personally, I have enjoyed a wonderful working relationship with the techs and management at CC and I cannot express how glad I am that I have a Magna! That is not to say there were not times when I was also not happy with a decision that I thought should have gone my way. But I have to say that that over time, I have had I-N-C-R-E- D-B-L-E support and service from Country Coach and I have a 2000 Magna and am a(almost 2 years)fulltimer and solo to boot! So if you don't think it is important to me to have assurance driving a this rig with the support I get from CC (and CAT), I have news for you- I wouldn't own anything else! I have never been stuck on the side of the road( knock wood) and I hope I never am. But I have established relationships with the folks there and they have treated me wonderfully and very fairly. Service and support has been stupendous- especially at the rallies where they have bent over backwards to accomodate, not just me, but many others I hear from.

Sometimes there are situations where there is a turnover of personnel that can mean a ramping up period for the techs. Not all of them know how to solve every issue and not every issue can be solved quickly. Sometimes it takes several trips and different eyes and ears on the issue for it to be solved. Just like a doctor visit, not everything can be diagnosed or cured immediately. Also, there is not a single motorhome on the market bought new that does not have a laundry list of things to be fixed. There are too many vendors and too many hands making this custom machine- not like the assembly lines of GM where everything is basically the same over and over again. That is one of the reasons I purchased my rig used and the previous owner was nice enough to have dealt with the bugs. I have given up on the mystery of the vanishing coolant after we have all tried many fixes, but it still evaporates over time. Some problems are things that just do not have solution.

That being said, I agree that Country Coach as all RV manufacturers can always improve their quality control. And from what I understand they are working on that very seriously and things are much improved.

Regarding the issue getting in on your schedule. Country Coach sells ALOT of coaches and spring and summer are the busiest times for warranty and other service. Is the CC service staff supposed to cancel MY appointment that I made 3 months ago in order to fit you in? I know what it feels like to be inconvenienced with someone not being able to see me when I want or need to be seen-- heck I have to make doctor's appointments 3-4 months in advance! (Have you been to an emergency room lately?) I have had issues that concerned me with the motorhome and was no where near CC and had a hard time getting into some shops on short notice. Unless you are Queen Elizabeth, you have to wait in line with the rest of us... sorry. Otherwise there are other shops as you found to take care of your needs.

I know everyone has different experiences, but I can testify that mine has been fabulous and although I may never be able to own one of the new models unless I win a lottery, I would never recommend anything else. I am not sure who you dealt with at Country Coach, but I think a lot of owners who have complaints need to take it up the chain of command and use a little diplomacy in so doing. Doug Rutherford and Jim Cooley are princes... they have never let me down- - well- maybe once- but they made up for it later...
They are my guardian angels on the road...

Sometimes the solution depends on your approach to the matters...
Granted the people you dealt with at Country Coach might have handled the situation better, but maybe, just maybe, you could have done some things differently as well. Like driving your coach a few more times instead of leaving it in storage for 10 months( not good.. not good for th coach or engine...)

I hope you get things squared away with CC. Remember an ounce of sugar goes a lot further than a gallon of vinegar.
Good luck and happy trails!

By the way... the suggestion about getting weighed and tire pressure was also on the mark... makes a huge difference...

In Country-Coach-Owners@yahoogroups.com, "Doug Rosenberg" wrote:

Quote
If you are one that subscribes to the theory that criticism should
never be posted here, cancel it now.

Quote
>

We have had handling problems with our 03 Allure since taking
delivery. It has been back to Junction City for service 4 times.
Our last attempt with the dealer, Guaranty, resulted in our arriving on Saturday to continue our trip [after a week in the shop] to find that they had decided not to proceed with alignment since CC had refused to pay for it. Had they notified us earlier in the week we would have paid for it ourselves. Consequently we left on a 2500 mile trip with dangerous handling. And it was a miserable 2500 miles.

Quote
>

Next, we left the coach with CC for a few weeks. Their solution
was to lower tire pressures to 75#. They drove it and pronounced it normal. We put it in storage for the next 10 months, planning to address the handing ourselves before the next trip. That time came last month. We started with the new Michelins on the front and then an alignment, the one CC said we didn't need. The front-end toe-in was seriously overset and the right caster was out as far as the shop had ever seen. The technician told us exactly how it had been handling, i.e. impossible to keep it straight, darting off in unpredictable directions, pulling to the right, and impossible to know where it would head coming out of a dip. He was right on.
Someone asked why CC would use tires that may not be the best for handling. Why would they send coaches out the door that are far out of alignment. It baffles us.

Quote
>

The handling is now safe, but not good. It still takes constant
attention, but at least we don't have to over-steer in anticipation of wind buffeting, broken highway surfaces, etc. Before the next trip we will add a Blue-Ox steering system, larger sway bars, and 4 new rear tires.

Quote
>

We spent two days getting service around Eugene. New tires were
from Wyatt's. The alignment was at Keizer Brake & Alignment, and service was at Cummins Coach Care in Coburg. All three firms were outstanding. The Keizer crew noticed that the coach wouldn't hold air for more than 15 minutes, a problem we have tried to get fixed at least twice. After the alignment they worked us into their afternoon schedule, replacing the three worst cracked brass fittings. All three were broken as the result of over-torquing with an air wrench--a no with brass. We now can hold air for a day--more fittings yet to change. The mechanic said they had told the factory about the problem many times but CC is still doing it. Why? A good question. Probably because the sealer slows the leak until it begins to dry out about a year or two later.

Quote
>

On to Coach Care Friday morning for routine service. They are
terrific. The boss and the tech had 24 years at CC between them.
They went well beyond routine service including addressing the axle- bolt recall, the non-functioning Hurricane, and the rear vision camera. They couldn't have been more helpful, even when they had to scramble to get two more techs to deal with the extra issues. Their charge, considering that we were there all day, and considering all of the extra issues, was very fair.

Quote
>

How did CC handle our request for some help with the faulty backup
camera, dash air, and Hurricane? Considering that the coach hadn't been used since it had been at CC for service, we expected to be able to drop by CC service and have a tech make sure we were programming them correctly. A call early in the week to the supervisor we had worked with resulted in a call back, from a scheduler, a day later, to tell us no one would have time to see us. The fact that we were outward-bound on vacation and that CC had just "fixed" the non-functioning items, made no difference. They wouldn't even have their best tech, Jake Smith, call us.

Quote
>

So, if the majority of this group subscribes to the approach that
no criticism should ever be posted, this will be our last. We subscribe to the theory that businesses that do not deliver quality products and customer service should fail. If, however, anyone is interested in how CC addresses the bills they are going to receive from us, or how they address our demand for an entirely new diesel heat system, let me know.

Re: handling problems, etc

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 9591
Patti and I love our motorhome. It's an Allure 32' Springs Port with Cream colored interior. We have worked all the bugs out, as many of you know over the 18 months we've had it. It has the 370 Cummings, custom exterior paint, and a lot of features that are standard now were extras on ours. Alas, we have to make some hard decisions, and one of them is to sell our beloved Allure and begin to plan to build a home on our retirement property while we are still working full time. If you are interested in purchasing our beautiful motorhome, please email us at frazier5421@... and I can email pix and arrange a showing. I will miss my "friends" on this website most of all. I have learned so much from all of you and read every email every night, even though I don't know any of you personally I feel like MagnaMamma and Dean and Fred and Joe and Icasebeer etc, are all friends that I will miss.

Thanks again to all of you,

We will keep reading as long as we have our Allure.
Joe and Patti Frazier
03 Allure 80524

Re: handling problems, etc

Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 9593
Joe, why don't you set up an album and post your pics right here?

Bill Harris

03 Allures 1st Ave 30912
Datastorm

Quote from: Joe and Patti Frazier,\[br\
III"]
Patti and I love our motorhome. It's an Allure 32' Springs Port
with Cream colored interior. We have worked all the bugs out, as
many of you know over the 18 months we've had it. It has the 370
Cummings, custom exterior paint, and a lot of features that are
standard now were extras on ours. Alas, we have to make some hard
decisions, and one of them is to sell our beloved Allure and begin
to plan to build a home on our retirement property while we are
still working full time. If you are interested in purchasing our
beautiful motorhome, please email us at
frazier5421@m... and I can email pix and arrange a showing. I will miss my "friends" on this website most of all. I have learned so much from all of you and read every email every night, even though I don't know any of you personally I feel like MagnaMamma and Dean and Fred and Joe and Icasebeer etc, are all friends that I will miss.

Quote
>

Thanks again to all of you,

We will keep reading as long as we have our Allure.
Joe and Patti Frazier
03 Allure 80524