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Considering a Newmar

Yahoo Message Number: 10990
My wife and I are going to buy an RV and go full-timing for at least a year, if not the rest of our lives. We fell in love with the CC Allure, but that one year warranty is a real sticking point. I've also read horror stories on this site about how poorly CC treats you after they get your hundreds of thousands. Newmar, on the other hand, offers a three year warranty, and they get an awful lot of praise about the way they treat their customers. Newmar's looking like the way to go. I'm interested in your own experiences with CC, Newmar, and any other manufacturer. And I hope I haven't offended anyone.
Dwight

Re: Considering a Newmar

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 10992
Dear Dwight,

We went just the other way...We were looking at the DutchStar and the Mountain Air and went to the Allure. Although the quality in the Newmar was good we felt the quality in the CC was better. WE had the chance to comparison shop both since the CC dealer was across the street.

I also spent time on this site for CC owners and also on the Yahoo site for Newmar owners before we made a move. Newmar owners just seemed to have more problems and more after the sale issues.

I was also concerned about the 1 year vs the 3 year but felt overall the value in the CC was better long term. I even did a study on the purchase/depreciation of both units...In my own way the CC won out. Having just been through the CC factory I now understand why these things last as long as they do...they are really built to last.

After all my logical comparisons, spread sheets, investigation and talks with owners, etc. I decided to buy the CC because that is what I wanted! Both are costly, they are a depreciating asset, so get something that you really want and will be happy with.

Good luck

Dean Ansley
04 Allure 40'

--- dwightms dwightms@...> wrote:

Quote
My wife and I are going to buy an RV and go full-timing for at least a year, if not the rest of our lives. We fell in love with the CC
Allure, but that one year warranty is a real  sticking point. I've also read horror stories on this site about how poorly CC treats you
after they get your hundreds of thousands. Newmar, on the other hand, offers a three year warranty, and they get an
awful lot of praise about the way they treat their customers.
Newmar's looking like the way to go. I'm interested in your own experiences with CC, Newmar, and any other manufacturer. And I hope I haven't offended anyone.

Dwight

=====

Dean Ansley

Home Office 949-733-3232

E-Mail ansleyd2001@...

Re: Considering a Newmar

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 11001
Good move Dwight.

Sure wish I had it to do over again.....

Andy

The truth about our gas prices.

Why are we low on oil? Simple ? we forgot to check it.
Our oil is in Alaska, Oklahoma and Texas.
OUR DIPSTICKS ARE IN WASHINGTON.
{Stolen from some other forum}

DW6000 / Satmex5 / Xpndr 1070 / linksys befw11s4 2002 36' Allure #30787 / 2000 Subaru Forester

=====================================================

Quote from: dwightms
My wife and I are going to buy an RV and go full-timing for at

least a year, if not the rest of our lives. We fell in love with the CC > Allure, but that one year warranty is a real sticking point. I've also read horror stories on this site about how poorly CC treats you after they get your hundreds of thousands. Newmar, on the other hand, offers a three year warranty, and they get an awful lot of > praise about the way they treat their customers. Newmar's looking like the way to go. I'm interested in your own experiences with CC,[/quote]

Re: Considering a Newmar

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 11003
Quote from: Andy Ring

Good move Dwight.

Sure wish I had it to do over again.....

Andy
The truth about our gas prices.

Why are we low on oil? Simple ? we forgot to check it.
Our oil is in Alaska, Oklahoma and Texas.
OUR DIPSTICKS ARE IN WASHINGTON.
 {Stolen from some other forum} >

DW6000 / Satmex5 / Xpndr 1070 / linksys befw11s4 > 2002 36' Allure #30787 / 2000 Subaru Forester >

===================================================== >

Re: Considering a Newmar

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 11005
Hi Dwight

I won't go into the detail because it's all right here on the forum.
Check my posts for the last week or so to see most of it. I think I wrote some detailed descriptions on electrolysis about a month ago.
A search on electrolysis should find it.

In summary, in addition to the long list of problems one may expect of a less expensive coach, I had problems with electrolysis in both slide rooms and a serious paint defect that CC will not admit to or discuss. I am still working on that. I also had the defective, leaking hydraulic hoses that power the slide rooms. Every hose had to be replaced. A full day for 3 men.
Just an example of the way CC treats customers. We had 1 room fixed at Buddy Gregg in Dallas. They did a good job but they didn't have any trim to replace what got damaged in the bedroom. It's just a stick on tape that matches the wall. They said I could wait till they ordered some from CC or I could just get it from CC and put it on myself. After 2 weeks out of the coach for the major repair I decided to get it and put it on myself. You would think that CC would be happy to send me a cheap roll of tape to make the room look good would you not? Not a chance. I tried to get some while at factory and have written 3 or 4 times since. Won't even answer my letters??..

If you can't find the other posts let me know and I will be happy to give you complete detail of all problems.

We did the Newmar factory tour and were very impressed with everything except the rubber roof which was standard at that time and that made me question their credibility. I understand they no longer use that type roof. Again, I wish I had it to do over.

Andy

Re: Considering a Newmar

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 11008
I have meant to add my two cents over the issue of problems with diesels in general. I feel that many of these problems are due to the fact that the coaches sit idle for long periods of time. Many of those writing seem to use the coaches for vacations, weekends, etc. I think that is a mistake for diesels as they want to be used. Not abused but USED. I have been fulltiming for 16 months now and it is amazing how the small nagging problems have disappeared! Just my opinion... 2000 Allure On Mon, 9 Aug 2004 10:50:22 -0700 (PDT) Dean Ansley ansleyd2001@...> writes:

Re: Considering a Newmar

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 11011
I am on my third country coach my first was 5 years old, my second was 6 years old my current one is a 2002 I just got it. the factory has always been super that?s why I keep going back. it is smart to call ahead and give them a list of everything you want done. bill Vincent 02 Magna #6048

Re: Considering a Newmar

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 11012
Dwight,

There are several ways to look at warranties. The Korean cars have a seven-year warranty--do you consider them better quality than a Honda? After studying motorhomes for some 10 years, and gaining experience in a gas motorhome, we settled on a five-year-old Affinity. The workmanship is far and above that of any Newmar--believe me, we have looked at them. We also took Dutch Stars and Mountain Airs for test rides--again no comparison. We were offered a warranty for an extra $5,000, and after having gone through the coach with a fine tooth comb, we felt it was not needed. We did have some issues we discovered later, but so far we've spent less than $1,000 on items that would have been covered by the warranty. We bought the Affinity because we plan on keeping it a long time, so quality was very important, and so far we have not been disappointed. Personally, I would rather go for a used higher end, than a brand-new coach on the low end. And that's before you talk the huge depreciation on a coach--but that's us. I understand that many must have a new coach. The Dutch Star is a popular coach and is a good value for the money, with many happy owners. Keep in mind some owners are very finicky, and complain about the least little thing. Several have mentioned that someone's lemon, became the next owners' pride and joy--sometimes it depends on your perspective.
Per

95 Affinity 5259
Quote
My wife and I are going to buy an RV and go full-timing for at least a year, if not the rest of our lives. We fell in love with the CC Allure, but that one year warranty is a real sticking point. I've also read horror stories on this site about how poorly CC treats you after they get your hundreds of thousands. Newmar, on the other hand, offers a three year warranty, and they get an  awful lot of praise about the way they treat their customers.
Newmar's looking like the way to go. I'm interested in your own experiences with CC, Newmar, and any other manufacturer. And I hope I haven't offended anyone.
Dwight

=====

Dean Ansley

Home Office 949-733-3232
E-Mail ansleyd2001@...

info/terms/

Re: Considering a Newmar

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 11015
I had many many problems with a brand new 2002 Intrigue. It took a lot of time, effort and dealing to get the coach in proper working order but I finally did. And then, even hard for us to believe, we bought a new Magna at the rally.
We hadn't totally planned to buy a new coach but I don't think we got caught up in the frenzy a rally will cause either. Planning to go full time in about 4 weeks (to last 1 to 2+ years and maybe more) and then "most of the time" after that, we decided our 36' Intrigue was just not large enough to give us the comfort we wanted as full-timers.
Even with all the problems we had last time, I sincerely believe CC is the best production coach available. I don't think anything else even comes close, and I'm going to live with the hope that this new adventure will prove better than the last.
Our opinion. But I believe we made the right choice. And CC will work with you after the sale, and I do believe it's getting better.

Tom & Pat Sims

36' 2002 Intrigue - soon to be 45' Magna.

Re: Considering a Newmar

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 11017
Dwight

You will hear bitchers on every site including CC and Newmar. If you don't find as many bitchers on Newmar it is because more CC people are into high teck electronics. Most of the CC owners are into cutting edge electronics and thats what you get with CC but at times I wish we were not. As for the CCI warranty, it is as good as the 3 year Newmar. Because if the problem is their fault CCI will fix it after 3 years. I had a 2001 Magna that they just fixed under what they call good will. Lots of CC owners think CC should fix anything regardless of age, I don't believe that. You can't take a 5 year old Honda back in for a paint job so why should we expect that with CC. In fact if you take your Honda in for an oil change it could catch fire. That's just a little grip I have with Hondas, they always think American cars are crap and the Japs are great.
The one thing I don't like about Newmar is the chassie. As with any company that uses a standard chassie it is cut up to fit their coaches. CC makes their own chassie and builds a different size for each vehicle. Only a few companies do that because it is more expensive. That is what makes CC so good. They also use the latest electronic safety features like TV cameras on the sides of the coach and Smart tire for the coach as well as the tow car. Take a look at the tires on the Newmar. You will find that they use adequate tires where as CC uses tires that are large enough to give you a margin of error. On our 01 Magna we could have run our tires at 85 pounds because they were large enough to handle any load. You will not find that with other manufacturers. As far as conponents are concerned, Everyone uses the same items. Some use better brands but there is a limited choise of some items for RVs. Some people think you should be able to go back to the factory to get an AC fixed. The factory knows little about AC, we always go to a dealer or Camping World for these items, being from Florida we don't get to go to the factory very often. Can you take your Honda back to the factory for service?
We have had 3 brands of motor coaches and 3 CCs. Country Coach is a cut above all the others. Are they the best, probably not but who is? You will find someone who hates every brand but CCI customers keep coming back. At the rally here in JC they sold 47 caoches in 4 days and there were only 330 coachs in attendance. That keeps production going till Feb 2005. CCI does not build a lot of caoches. Our 05 Magna is #6425 and our 01 Magna was # 5998. Thats 327 Magnas and Affinitys built in 42 months. None are perfect, but if you find a perfect MH let me know. They are very complicated machines, if you took your house on the road would it be problem free? Even the $2,000,000 Prevosts spend time in the shop. You can have problems with what ever you buy. Your decision should be based on your needs and your wallet. Some MH are better then others but your decision should also be based on what suits you. Its like buying a car, all of them will get you there its a matter of how you want to arrive. The Newmars are like anyother brand, they do things I like and somethings I don't like. And I don't think their workers are any better because they are a special group of people. Good luck on your decision and happy travels.

Bill G. 2005 Magna #5998

Re: Considering a Newmar

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 11019
Dear Dwight,

I have owned two coaches in three and half ;years. The first was a 2001 Dutchstar on a Freightliner Chassis with a CAT 330 Engine. I put 50,000 miles on this coach in 18 months. I currently own a 2002 Affinity and just put 48,000 miles on it in the last two years. There is no comparison in my book. I had the same list of problems on both coaches and received the same level of service from both companies, except Newmar walked away from my problems with underpower on the Cat engine and would not even answer my letter to the President asking for help in resolving the issue.
CC has done everything I could expect to give me warranty coverage for all the problems I have identified and never once sent me to one of their suppliers to get resolution on a problem. In my opinion you are talking about apples and oranges. The Newmar product line does not even fit into the same catagory as CC. Both in the way they are built or perform. I have taken both factory tours (Newmar/CC) and the coach structure alone puts CC in a different league. If I buy another coach, I will look to CC first, then maybe Newell. But in your price range, CC outperforms every coach I have checked in the last four years. Let me know if you would like to discuss more. Good Luck Wayne #6054 Cell phone 408-656-3464

Re: Considering a Newmar

Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 11021
Dwight

I must agree with Wayne, an Affinity is just head and shoulders above a Dutchstar.
Andy

02 Allure

Re: Considering a Newmar

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 11023
People, thanks so much for your generous feedback. You're obviously happy you bought CCs, and you rekindle my interest in the Allure.

But still I must wonder, if CC is so willing to take care of their customers' problems, as you assure me they are, why don't they just put it in writing? Think about it, aside from possibly tires, brakes, and windshield wipers, is there any component on the coach that isn't expected to last more than a year? I know the stuff inside is made by many different manufacturers. But if CC is putting them in their coaches, and those coaches bear the CC marque, CC should be responsible for their functionality. In other words, if a component fails, it should be CCs responsibility to get it repaired or replaced pronto, and for more than 12 months. My goodness, we're talking three or four hundred thousand dollars here.
Dwight

Re: Considering a Newmar

Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 11025
I never said anything about a Dutch Star. We like the Essex.
Dwight

================================================================

Re: Considering a Newmar

Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 11026
I'm the third owner of a 1998 Allure, yet when I call CC I get treated like I bought it new. My biggest beef with CC is that they haven't handled the SeGi window issue (creeping seals) very well.
Other than that, they have given me support far beyond expectations.

Newmar is an excellent company. Still, IMHO, you can't compare a Dutch Star to a CC. CCs are much more expensive for a reason--they are more expensively constructed, particularly the chassis. We considered Dutch Star when we bought this one but were unable to find one under 38 feet in length. It was very difficult to find a 36 foot CC, they are extremely popular on resale.

I urge you to examine both coaches carefully and pick the one that best meets your needs. Good luck.

Dan

Re: Considering a Newmar (Dwight)

Reply #16 –
Yahoo Message Number: 11029
Dwight

There are many happy Newmar owners and there are many happy CC owners. CC products tend to be more expensive, and if money is not an issue that should not be the deciding factor. Apparently the continuing escalating cost of CC products is not a factor for many people as was posted on this site concerning the recent CC rally in Oregon where more than 40 coaches were sold. We know friends that have a Dutch Star and think dollar for dollar it was the best buy. We also have friends that recently traded the CC for an American product and they seem to be very happy considering the significant difference in cost. As you know, in life there are no perfect answers and no perfect coaches. Good luck.....
Gene

Re: Considering a Newmar

Reply #17 –
Yahoo Message Number: 11040
I think you had better go to FMCA and see what you are getting into. Their best coach won't come close to an Intrigue LE with a C13. The fit and finish on the out side and interior are so so at best. Know three Dutch Star owners that are having drive line troubles and Spartan can't or won't fix them.
They can't drive over 60 without the coach cabinet contents vibrating the doors open. The chassic uses C channel for the main struts and the frame sags so bad with out the house on it that you wonder if there are anyslides will the thing stay together. I had my 98 Allure for 5 1/2 years and spent very little besides usual lube prices. A couple of light switches, a refer board and a thermostat. Just finished the rally and 32 items under warranty.
Could have fixed 30 myself. The other two would have cost around $50.oo if not under warranty. The labor was done at the rally. No cost. Newmar builds an Essex in less than two weeks on an assembly line. Is that what you really want..??
TWI 2004 Intrigue 11731 Ovation

Re: Considering a Newmar

Reply #18 –
Yahoo Message Number: 11042
While at the factory saw a repair on 2002 Allure for electrolsis. Takes 76 man hours plus 1 1/2 days for paint. TWI Intrigue 11731

Re: Considering a Newmar

Reply #19 –
Yahoo Message Number: 11055
If you are going to full time, you better read the Newmar warranty real close before you buy. You will find that the warranty says that the coach is not intended for full time use and if you do, the warranty could become void. I didn't believe it until friends of our that have a Newmar showed it to me.
That said, the Newmar is not in the same class as a Newmar. You should be compairing apples to apples. The one year warranty did not come into the equation when we purchased out Intrigue.

Don

'02 Intrigue #11427
'02 Intrigue #11427

Re: Considering a Newmar

Reply #20 –
Yahoo Message Number: 11059
Hi Dwight,

Having a positive experience with Newmar for a problem that wasn't theirs but one of their vendors I can highly recommend them. I have had experience with CC customer service also and had no problems so I think you could buy either with confidence that they stand behind their product it's a matter of choice I have posted a reply that I made on another board below

I had the C7 Cat in my 2004 Dutch Star which Newmar just bought back for that same reason lack of performance and replaced it with a 2005 Dutch Star with the 370 Cummins. Glad that my dealer Midway Motorhomes of Grand Rapids Michigan got involved and got Newmar to do the buy back so the only thing that I had to pay for was the standard equipment on the 2005 Dutch Star that were options on the 2004 Dutch Star and the 370 Cummins engine and Spartan chassis and other options that I added to the 2005 that I didn't have on the 2004 About $8k

Considering a Newmar

Reply #21 –
Yahoo Message Number: 11067
Thanks everyone, for your thorough accounts. I'll consider them all. But I'd surely appreciate further comments.
Dwight

Re: Considering a Newmar

Reply #22 –
Yahoo Message Number: 11071
Hi Dwight,

I wrote earlier. I had a Dutchstar with an underpower problem, and unlike the other gentlemen that wrote, Newmar refused to take my coach back. I believe the other gentlemen was lucky to have the type of dealer support that caused this to occur.
If you have taken the factory tours, please note that Newmar uses u-channel aluminum side channels in it's wall structure, and I believe wood support in it's roofs. CC uses steel tubing in the side walls and aluminum in it's roof structure. The side walls were installed one panel at a time at Newmar and CC fabricates the entire wall panel as a single laminated unit and then lifts the side wall into place. The added strength of the sub structure in CC Allures is far superior to the techniques used by Newmar.
A side note may be appropriate. A friend of mine is currently having a problem with his 02 Allure. He is sitting in Sulphur Springs Texas. To prevent further damage to the Coach from towing, CC (Doug Beaudry) had a mechanic drive two hours from Dallas to determine the problem and has had this same mechanic drive for the last two days getting the problem fixed (three days total) at no cost to my friend. The commitment that CC management supplies to it's customers has proven to me to be far superior to what I experienced from Newmar. Nothing negative about Newmar, but CC is much better.

Good luck, Wayne #6054

Re: Considering a Newmar

Reply #23 –
Yahoo Message Number: 11074
This may seem petty compared to other Newmar issues, but is anyone else bothered by the air vents in the middle of the floor? They caught my eye as soon as I walked in - seem like dirt magnets to me.

Dave

Re: Considering a Newmar

Reply #24 –
Yahoo Message Number: 11075
This may seem petty compared to other Newmar issues, but is anyone else bothered by the air vents in the middle of the floor? They caught my eye as soon as I walked in - seem like dirt magnets to me.
I heard one case where someone's dog got its collar tag caught in a floor vent when they laid on

it (motorhome brand unknown). Fortunately, they were there to free the dog.
Surely an exceptional case. But ...

Dick (& Geri) Campagna
36' Country Coach Intrigue