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Recall of Honda CRVs

Yahoo Message Number: 13501
On the news just now...Honda is recalling CRVs because of the danger of fire after oil changes. Weren't some of the posters here talking about that recently?

Carol

Re: Recall of Honda CRVs

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 13502
From: "jennylindca" jennylind2000@...>
Quote
On the news just now...Honda is recalling CRVs because of the danger
of fire after oil changes. Weren't some of the posters here talking about that recently?

Yes, it was me (and maybe others?). After Honda redesigned the CRV (in '03?), a small number of folks experienced engine compartment fires after the oil was first changed. Analysis indicated it was caused either by failing to remove the old filter gasket, tightening the new filter too much, or failing to properly tighten the new filter. Since the engine wasn't redesigned in the body redesign process, Honda couldn't figure out why these fires were suddenly occurring, so felt that a recall wasn't warranted until a valid product was uncovered.. After all, a recall to do ... what?
I'd be interested in learning what will be accomplished as part of this recall process.

I hadn't heard of the CRV recall. The only vehicle problems mentioned in our local papers the past few days have been about front axles/wheels falling off 4WD Dodge Dakotas and Durangos and Hummer H2s.

Dick (& Geri) Campagna
'98 36' Intrigue #10571
Mfd: 11/97

Re: Recall of Honda CRVs

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 13510
Quote
I hadn't heard of the CRV recall. The only vehicle problems mentioned in >our local papers the past few days have been about front axles/wheels >falling off 4WD Dodge Dakotas and Durangos and Hummer H2s.
I have an 03 CR-V and there's no mention of it in the recalls section on the Honda owner's website.
Tom Fisher
Dallas, TX

Re: Recall of Honda CRVs

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 13512
Carol,

Yes we were talking about Honda and the CRVs. Some people said they wished Honda would start building motorhomes like they build cars.

Re: Recall of Honda CRVs

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 13515
The problem with the later CRV's is not just the car, it's the mechanic. It seems that the design of the newer oil filter allows oil to leak out if the mechanic leaves the existing gasket in place that should be removed with the old filter. Two gaskets allow oil to escape onto the hot exhaust manifold and could start fires. I don't know what Honda changes during the recall, perhaps they just check to insure there are not two gaskets in place.
I have an 02 and have changed my own oil a couple of times. The gasket stayed on the filter, so no problem. Maybe the newer ones have a removable gasket. Don?t know. Just guessing. Good toad.

Larry
Intrigue
10762

Re: Recall of Honda CRVs

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 13516
Quote
The problem with the later CRV's is not just the car, it's the mechanic. It
seems that the design of the newer oil filter allows oil >to leak out if the mechanic leaves the existing gasket in place that should be removed with the old filter. Two gaskets allow oil >to escape onto the hot exhaust manifold and could start fires. I don't know what Honda changes during the recall, perhaps they >just check to insure there are not two gaskets in place.

Again I'll ask, WHAT RECALL? The official Honda CR-V owners website does not list a recall for this. Can you point owners to this or should we just call the dealer? Thanks,
Tom Fisher
Dallas, TX

Re: Recall of Honda CRVs

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 13520
I believe I said in my first post that I saw it on the news last night. The news item showed a CRV burned to a crisp, obviously by a fire that started in the engine area. My friend who drives a Durango notes that the recall on Durangos isn't listed on any of the recall lists, either, but it is all over the news. Call your dealership to see what they say.
Take care,

Carol

Quote
>

Again I'll ask, WHAT RECALL? The official Honda CR-V owners > website does not list a recall for this. Can you point owners to

this

Re: Recall of Honda CRVs

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 13522
Why Are Honda CR-V's Catching Fire? All 5 messages in topic -
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Sparky

Oct 16, 1:18 pm
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From: Sparky

Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 20:18:49
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Local: Sat, Oct 16 2004 1:18 pm

Subject: Why Are Honda CR-V's Catching Fire?
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Print | Individual Message | Show original | Report Abuse Why Are Honda

CR-V's Catching Fire?

October 12, 2004By JEREMY W.
PETERS

DETROIT, Oct. 8 - With barely 10,000 miles on the odometer of his 2003 Honda CR-V sport utility vehicle, the only thing Steve Elder expected to smell inside was that new-car scent.

But as he drove home after having the oil changed last December, his CR-V began to fill with smoke.
"So I got out, obviously, checked under the hood and saw flames coming out of the engine," said Mr. Elder, a 35-year-old financial planner from North Yarmouth, Me.
It was not long before the entire vehicle - and a pair of diamond earrings Mr. Elder had bought his wife for Christmas - were consumed by the fire.

Mr. Elder's vehicle was one of at least 60 new CR-V's nationwide to catch fire suddenly while on the road. In most cases, the vehicles had just been serviced for their first oil changes.

While no injuries have been reported, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has reopened and upgraded an investigation into the CR-V to determine what is making some of them suddenly burst into flames, in many cases destroying the vehicles. The expanded inquiry covers about 280,000 CR-V's in the 2003 and 2004 model years.

So far, the investigation has yielded nothing but finger-pointing, with Honda blaming dealerships for mishandling oil changes and consumer groups accusing the automaker of dodging responsibility.

"The core issue for us is the issue of improper installation of the oil filter," said a Honda spokesman, Andy Boyd.
"There doesn't seem to be anything else that we can point to."

In the new phase of its investigation, the safety agency is looking beyond the oil filter to see what other factors could be contributing to the CR-V fires.
Rae Tyson, a spokesman for the agency, said, "In this instance, both N.H.T.S.A. and Honda initially thought it was merely a problem with not executing the oil change properly, and that there didn't seem to be anything inherently wrong with the vehicle."

Mr. Tyson added that while the agency had not found any evidence of a manufacturer's defect, the manufacturing and design of the CR-V are two of several subjects investigators are now studying.

Honda and the safety administration thought they had resolved the CR-V fires problem this summer. In July, the agency closed a preliminary investigation into fires involving 2003 model CR-V's after Honda said the problem was a result of faulty oil changes.

According to documents from the safety administration, Honda said that in many of the vehicles that caught fire, mechanics had either not properly installed a new oil filter seal or had failed to remove the factory-installed seal before putting in the new one.

With the two seals in place at one time, the new oil filter could not create enough suction to prevent oil from leaking out and spilling onto the car's hot exhaust system. With an improperly installed seal, oil could also seep out onto the exhaust system and cause a fire.

The documents show that the agency agreed that the problem originated at dealerships and service stations and had nothing to do with the CR-V's design.
Honda then sent letters to its dealers warning them of the potential fire hazard, and the agency stopped its inquiry.

The fires, however, did not stop.

From July 1 to Sept. 9, the date the safety administration reopened itsinvestigation into the CR-V, the agency received reports of 18 more fires.
The new investigation, known as an engineering analysis, is the most exhaustive of the agency's safety inquiries. It is also looking at model year 2004 CR-V's because drivers have begun reporting fires in those models as well.
Mr. Tyson said the investigation could have several outcomes, ranging from no action to a recall.
Honda insists the fires are being caused by negligence on the part of mechanics and says it is not considering a voluntary recall.

"You can't recall the process of changing oil, and that really is the root problem as we see it today," Mr. Boyd said.

What is puzzling Honda engineers and other automobile experts who have been studying the fires is why they are occurring only in 2003 and 2004 models.
"There were no fundamental changes in the vehicle design from 2002 to 2003, yet we have seen this jump in the number of leaks, and in some cases fires," Mr. Boyd said.
Mr. Boyd said the last significant redesign to the CR-V was in 2001, but fires have only recently become a problem.

Some experts have argued that if the fault lies with mechanics, as Honda contends, any vehicle would be prone to the same problems as the CR-V.

"There's something Honda isn't telling the government about this vehicle," said Clarence Ditlow, executive director of the Center for Auto Safety.
Mr. Ditlow said the safety agency should order a recall if Honda refused to do one voluntarily. "This is an open-and-shut case, so the only question for us is, Why haven't they done a safety recall?"

Gregory Barnett, an automotive and heavy-truck consultant to the insurance industry who has written a book about vehicle fires, said the CR-V problem appeared to be a result of Honda's design and laziness on the part of mechanics.
The CR-V's oil filter, like those in models from many other automakers, is near the exhaust system, which increases the likelihood of a fire if the filter leaks, Mr. Barnett said. It is the mechanic's job to keep a leak from happening, he added.

"For somebody to change the oil and not check for a stuck gasket is just stupid," Mr. Barnett said. "I can't believe that Honda has had to send a letter out saying, 'Hey, guys, check for the oil filter gasket - you're setting cars on fire.' " Some Honda mechanics disagree.

In a letter to Automotive News, Jonathan O'Brian, a Honda shop foreman in Princeton, N.J., said the close proximity of the oil filter to the exhaust system in the CR-V could not be overlooked.

"With oil changes being relegated to less-experienced technicians and the constant pressure to do the job quickly, what is simply a mess on any other car is potentially hazardous on a CR-V," he wrote.

Mr. O'Brian declined to comment further, saying his letter had made his superiors at Honda unhappy.
"I'm better off not saying anything," he said.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/12/business/12honda.html?ex=1098956870...
Copyright 2004 The New York Times
Company

'"With oil changes being relegated to less-experienced technicians and the constant pressure to do the job quickly, what is simply a mess on any other car is potentially hazardous on a CR-V," he wrote.'

IOW, O'Brian is defending shoddy workmanship and saying it's unreasonable for the manufacturer to expect Honda service people to follow the shop manual and just plain crazy for customers to expect anything more than crap work. Double gaskets? What's more basic in an oil filter change? Will he defend cars being returned to customers without a filter altogether? A compelling argument for customers to change their own oil.

IIRC the article doesn't say, but suggests, that the fires are largely in cars serviced at Honda dealers - the dealers better watch out here.

I also wonder about Mr. Ditlow, who wants Honda to issue a recall - in the lack of an engineering design flaw, what would Honda have done to the CR-V's on the recall? I'm curious if the fires are distributed evenly amongst the 50 states in proportion to CR-V sales and, assuming Honda uses the same design in other markets, if fires are occurring in those markets, as well.>

Re: Recall of Honda CRVs

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 13523
Well, I did see it on the news, but now can't find anything on the websites of the channels I watch. I am NOT going insane! It was said, I promise! LOL

Carol

Re: Recall of Honda CRVs

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 13526
The Government requested Chrysler to recall the Dodge for 2002 and 2003 because of the front ball Joint, Chrysler has a period of time to respond. Their first response was that they did not feel it was a safety issue, but since I drive a Durango, I disagree. The recall, if it happens will probably not be for another 90 to 180 days.

John Bicknas 97 Magna 5416