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Clear Coat Problem

Yahoo Message Number: 18017
The clear coat is chipping away on the sides of the roof of my coach.

Has anyone had this problem and if so how did you solve it? Thanks

Bob 2000 Intrigue #11116

Re: Clear Coat Problem

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 18018
Quote from: beezer012345
> The clear coat is chipping away on the sides of the roof of my coach.
> Has anyone had this problem and if so how did you solve it? Thanks >

Bob 2000 Intrigue #11116

Bob,

I had the same thing. It was a problem I was expecting due to others reporting the same issue. I had the whole roof repainted at the Paint Department in Chico, CA.

I remember reading that some owners that "caught" the problem early enough had factory support. I doubt you will see that now.

Michael

01' Intrigue #11224

Re: Clear Coat Problem

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 18019
On our '96 Intrigue we saw the roof peeling. When we decided to do something but before we had a chance the sides started peeling when we washed it. What began as the roof needing re-cleared very rapidly reached the whole coach needing clear. Okay, no problem, right.
When the painter ( a friend) started preping it for clear, the paint started coming off too!

Granted our coach was a lot older than yours so hopefully it won't be as bad. Advice: go in with an open mind, do something sooner than later and try some preventative measures like 303 or something.

Tammy

Magna 5605 currently with only one a/c

Quote from: matsprt1984
[quote author=beezer012345"

> The clear coat is chipping away on the sides of the roof of my

coach.

Quote

> Has anyone had this problem and if so how did you solve it?

Thanks

Quote

> Bob 2000 Intrigue #11116

Bob,
> I had the same thing. It was a problem I was expecting due to others > reporting the same issue. I had the whole roof repainted at the

Paint

Re: Clear Coat Problem

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 18020
Hi Folks,

This issue has surfaced from time to time starting in the msg no.
2000-6000s.

Consider this for a short term fix - sand the peeling line with fine steel wool and use a polyurethane from a spray can covering about 4 inches on both sides of the line (ACE 17015).
For the long term, a LPU Two Part Linear Aliphatic Poly Urethane Coating

This clear-coat acrylic polyurethane has the maximum amount of UV blockers ... as well as moisture cured urethanes and, of course, all kinds of epoxies! ...
www.epoxyproducts.com/lpu.html

Look for a water soluable one component that is alipatic.
Her is the explaination -

"100% Solids Aliphatic Polyurethane Coatings - From Dream to Reality" In an aliphatic system, polyurethane coatings produced from the reaction of ... available aliphatic polyurethane coatings have a much longer curing time (eg ...
www.geocities.com/pucoating/alipha.htm The big concern is stretch and adherability because the fiberglass roof is free floating.
This is one of the best -
416 Polyurethane Coating

Moisture Cure Aliphatic Polyurethane Coating. EPOXYSYSTEMS PRODUCT #416 is a liquid applied, single-component, moisture cured, aliphatic polyurethane. ...
www.epoxysystems.com/416.htm

Now application is another issue, but fairly easy - any vehicle painting firm should have the where-with-all. I plan on doing it myself using equipment from Harbor Freight in California.

Fred Kovol

2000 Allure 30593

Quote from: beezer012345
> The clear coat is chipping away on the sides of the roof of my

coach.

Re: Clear Coat Problem

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 18021
Had the problem three years ago on the brow of my coach. Took it to a truck painting shop. They removed the clear, painted the brow to match the ivory of the fiberglass, and recleared. Looks great yet.

Key is putting clear over paint, not over fiberglass as was originally done.

Now, I am getting some peel on the top roof edges, so will have to do those next.

Dean

95 Magna 5280

Quote from: beezer012345
The clear coat is chipping away on the sides of the roof of my

coach.

Re: Clear Coat Problem

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 18023
Hi Dean,

I don't know how your coach was coated but mine came with a clear coat on the 4 sides and on the top it came up to about 2 inches into the horitontal area. There was a base coat (flat ivory coating over the whole roof (again no clear coat). After 3 years, the clear coat begain to peel at the no clear coat roof line. I first used Krylon to stop the peeling but it wore off after 2 years, after some investigation and user group suggestions, I have settled on a urethane coating as covered in the previous post. The roof is a floating fiberglass design which ripples and streches so an elongation coating is required. Note that the fiberglass must have a base coating with titanium dioxide pigment added to prevent UV from causing rapid rotting. So all roofs have some kind of a base coat to cover the fiberglass. Raw fiberglass is white and looks like a woven mat, but when affixed with epoxy and filler to become a fabric, it becomes dark yellow.
Fred Kovol

2000 Allure 30593

Re: Clear Coat Problem

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 18029
Fred,

I guess I used the term fiberglass as an interchange for gelcoat since I am not very knowledgeable in this stuff. I am told that clear coat over gelcoat is not a durable process. That is why boat painting guys, and truck painting guys and the guy at the "Paint Department" in Chino said the brow needed to be painted before applying clearcoat. My coach does not have full body paint. It does have a clearcoat edge like you describe on the roof of the coach. That is the area that is now peeling.

I guess ten years of sitting outside in the sun indicates that the clearcoat over gelcoat was not a totally erroneous process. But now it needs attention.

Quote from: fredkovol

Hi Dean,

I don't know how your coach was coated but mine came with a clear

coat

Quote
on the 4 sides and on the top it came up to about 2 inches into

the

Quote
horitontal area. There was a base coat (flat ivory coating over

the

Quote
whole roof (again no clear coat). After 3 years, the clear coat

begain

Quote
to peel at the no clear coat roof line. I first used Krylon to

stop

Quote
the peeling but it wore off after 2 years, after some
investigation

Quote
and user group suggestions, I have settled on a urethane coating

as

Quote
covered in the previous post. The roof is a floating fiberglass > design which ripples and streches so an elongation coating is > required. Note that the fiberglass must have a base coating with > titanium dioxide pigment added to prevent UV from causing rapid > rotting. So all roofs have some kind of a base coat to cover the > fiberglass. Raw fiberglass is white and looks like a woven mat,

but

Quote
when affixed with epoxy and filler to become a fabric, it becomes

dark

Quote
yellow.
Fred Kovol

2000 Allure 30593
>

Re: Clear Coat Problem

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 18031
Bob;

We had a real run on this subject last year. I'd check the August 2004 list CCO groups.
I repainted the roof on our 95 Magna last August.
The jest of the matter is, clear coats do not prevent UV radiation from penetrating to the polyester gelcoat (fiberglass) and causing degradation. Over time UV breaks down the polyester gelcoat (chalking is common name). The clear coat doesn't stick well to chalking and starts to peel off.
Best appoach is to remove as much of the clear coat that is not adhering tightly and painting with a two component pigmented urethane. I made paint that matched the cream color on the sides of my coach. As of last night it is holding tight.

Steve, coatings chemist
95 Magna 5220

Re: Clear Coat Problem

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 18032

Fred,

That sounds like a lot of work to me. Why not just coat the roof with 303 every 3 months if you store outside and every 6 months if you store inside. It has worked for us on 2 coaches, never see any chauking and with the proper equipment it only takes a half an hour. That is one of the ways CCI says to stop the clear coat from peeling. I believe this is in the maintenance section of the manual under the care of the exterior.

Bill G. 2005 Magna #6425

Re: Clear Coat Problem

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 18034
Hi Dean,

We are having a slight communications problem - so let me try again.
The roof is called a cap, the cap is made of fiberglass material that is made into a fabric by covering it with an epoxy/filler mixture which cures. This fabric is then laid on the roof (it might have been vacuumed curred to the shape of the roof with the curved sides). The fabric is affixed to the sides at the top with the rib that goes around the 3 sides, the front is attached as a separate piece and spliced at the top or may be one piece - front and top. The roof is not glued on but is left to float. Next, base coats are applied which may or may not be a gel coat, then the clear coat is applied, except for the top. If you want to observe the fabric without any coatings, look under the front of your coach and observe the back side. The color is amber(dark or burnt yellow)and you can see the weave. What I have suggested is to apply a urethane over the roof area that has no clear coat. This coating will stretch and contract with the fabric. I do not recommend a clear coat on top as it will fail to adhere over time. If you have any cracks larger than a hairline in the fabric, they should be sanded to remove an area about 1/2 in. either side of the crack and filled with a white epoxy/filler mixture, otherwise UV will rapidly rot the fiberglass material. Paint over the repair to match the color. I have built fiberplass airplanes, so have some knowledge in this area. 303 wax works but is a temporary solution.
Fred Kovol

2000 Allure 30593
(

Quote from: Dean

Re: Clear Coat Problem

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 18035
Footnote to this message.

The roof has a base coat with titanium dioxide as a filler which provides complete UV protection, however if you can start to see the fabric weave, then it is time to get a new base coat applied as soon as possible.
Fred Kovol

Quote from: fredkovol

Hi Dean,

We are having a slight communications problem - so let me try again.
The roof is called a cap, the cap is made of fiberglass material

that

Quote
is made into a fabric by covering it with an epoxy/filler mixture > which cures. This fabric is then laid on the roof (it might have

been

Quote
vacuumed curred to the shape of the roof with the curved sides). The > fabric is affixed to the sides at the top with the rib that goes > around the 3 sides, the front is attached as a separate piece and > spliced at the top or may be one piece - front and top. The roof is > not glued on but is left to float. Next, base coats are applied

which

Quote
may or may not be a gel coat, then the clear coat is applied, except > for the top. If you want to observe the fabric without any coatings, > look under the front of your coach and observe the back side. The > color is amber(dark or burnt yellow)and you can see the weave. What

I

Quote
have suggested is to apply a urethane over the roof area that has no > clear coat. This coating will stretch and contract with the fabric.

I

Quote
do not recommend a clear coat on top as it will fail to adhere over > time. If you have any cracks larger than a hairline in the fabric, > they should be sanded to remove an area about 1/2 in. either side of > the crack and filled with a white epoxy/filler mixture, otherwise UV > will rapidly rot the fiberglass material. Paint over the repair to > match the color. I have built fiberplass airplanes, so have some > knowledge in this area. 303 wax works but is a temporary solution.
Fred Kovol

2000 Allure 30593

(

[quote author=Dean"

> Fred,
>

> I guess I used the term fiberglass as an interchange for gelcoat > > since I am not very knowledgeable in this stuff. I am told that > > clear coat over gelcoat is not a durable process. That is why

boat

Quote
painting guys, and truck painting guys and the guy at the "Paint > > Department" in Chino said the brow needed to be painted before > > applying clearcoat. My coach does not have full body paint. It > > does have a clearcoat edge like you describe on the roof of the > > coach. That is the area that is now peeling.
>

> I guess ten years of sitting outside in the sun indicates that the > > clearcoat over gelcoat was not a totally erroneous process. But

now

Quote
it needs attention.
>
>

[quote author=fredkovol"
>]
> > Hi Dean,

> > I don't know how your coach was coated but mine came with a

clear

Quote
coat

> > on the 4 sides and on the top it came up to about 2 inches into > > the

> > horitontal area. There was a base coat (flat ivory coating over > > the

> > whole roof (again no clear coat). After 3 years, the clear coat > > begain

> > to peel at the no clear coat roof line. I first used Krylon to > > stop

> > the peeling but it wore off after 2 years, after some > > investigation

> > and user group suggestions, I have settled on a urethane coating > > as

> > covered in the previous post. The roof is a floating fiberglass > > > design which ripples and streches so an elongation coating is > > > required. Note that the fiberglass must have a base coating with > > > titanium dioxide pigment added to prevent UV from causing rapid > > > rotting. So all roofs have some kind of a base coat to cover the > > > fiberglass. Raw fiberglass is white and looks like a woven mat, > > but

> > when affixed with epoxy and filler to become a fabric, it

becomes

Quote
dark
> > yellow.
> > Fred Kovol

> > 2000 Allure 30593
> >

> >

Re: Clear Coat Problem

Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 18040
Fred, I guess I was missing the point. My response was meant to address the 2" or so clearcoat on the edge of the roof that is peeling and not a pretty sight on my coach and the previous successful repair.

Bob had asked about the clear coat chipping from the sides of his roof.

You seem to be discussing the non-clear coated area of the roof and its repair and preservation.

Thanks

Dean

Quote from: fredkovol

Hi Dean,

We are having a slight communications problem - so let me try

again.

Quote
The roof is called a cap, the cap is made of fiberglass material

that

Quote
is made into a fabric by covering it with an epoxy/filler mixture > which cures. This fabric is then laid on the roof (it might have

been

Quote
vacuumed curred to the shape of the roof with the curved sides).

The

Quote
fabric is affixed to the sides at the top with the rib that goes > around the 3 sides, the front is attached as a separate piece and > spliced at the top or may be one piece - front and top. The roof

is

Quote
not glued on but is left to float. Next, base coats are applied

which

Quote
may or may not be a gel coat, then the clear coat is applied,

except

Quote
for the top. If you want to observe the fabric without any

coatings,

Quote
look under the front of your coach and observe the back side. The > color is amber(dark or burnt yellow)and you can see the weave.

What I

Quote
have suggested is to apply a urethane over the roof area that has

no

Quote
clear coat. This coating will stretch and contract with the

fabric. I

Quote
do not recommend a clear coat on top as it will fail to adhere

over

Quote
time. If you have any cracks larger than a hairline in the fabric, > they should be sanded to remove an area about 1/2 in. either side

of

Quote
the crack and filled with a white epoxy/filler mixture, otherwise

UV

Quote
will rapidly rot the fiberglass material. Paint over the repair to > match the color. I have built fiberplass airplanes, so have some > knowledge in this area. 303 wax works but is a temporary solution.
Fred Kovol

2000 Allure 30593

(

Quote from: Dean"[/quote
Quote
>]
> Fred,
>

> I guess I used the term fiberglass as an interchange for gelcoat > > since I am not very knowledgeable in this stuff. I am told that > > clear coat over gelcoat is not a durable process. That is why

boat

Quote
painting guys, and truck painting guys and the guy at the "Paint > > Department" in Chino said the brow needed to be painted before > > applying clearcoat. My coach does not have full body paint. It > > does have a clearcoat edge like you describe on the roof of the > > coach. That is the area that is now peeling.
>

> I guess ten years of sitting outside in the sun indicates that

the

Quote
clearcoat over gelcoat was not a totally erroneous process. But

now

Quote
it needs attention.
>
>

[quote author=fredkovol"
>]
> > Hi Dean,

> > I don't know how your coach was coated but mine came with a

clear

Quote
coat

> > on the 4 sides and on the top it came up to about 2 inches

into

Quote
the

> > horitontal area. There was a base coat (flat ivory coating

over

Quote
the

> > whole roof (again no clear coat). After 3 years, the clear

coat

Quote
begain

> > to peel at the no clear coat roof line. I first used Krylon to > > stop

> > the peeling but it wore off after 2 years, after some > > investigation

> > and user group suggestions, I have settled on a urethane

coating

Quote
as

> > covered in the previous post. The roof is a floating

fiberglass

Quote
> design which ripples and streches so an elongation coating is > > > required. Note that the fiberglass must have a base coating

with

Quote
> titanium dioxide pigment added to prevent UV from causing

rapid

Quote
> rotting. So all roofs have some kind of a base coat to cover

the

Quote
> fiberglass. Raw fiberglass is white and looks like a woven

mat,

Quote
but

> > when affixed with epoxy and filler to become a fabric, it

becomes

Quote
dark
> > yellow.
> > Fred Kovol

> > 2000 Allure 30593
> >

> >

Re: Clear Coat Problem

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 18041
Fred, great advice. I have been planning to do the cap of my '98 Intrigue this fall due to clearcoat peeling at the edges.

I'm curious about 1) why do you feel the "416" is one of the best and 2) where have you found the "416" for sale?.

My plan has been to do the top or "flat" portion of the roof in a white pigmented polyester urethane to prevent further chalking and the curved edges in a clear that overlaps the newly applied white (after curing) by a few inches.

The technique I planned to use for application was to roll the top surface (using spray a little to get under the AC's and such and then spray the curved portions for the appropriate leveling and gloss.

Have you actually done this before and if so do you have any application suggestions?

Joey & Debi

'98 Intrigue #10540

Quote from: fredkovol

Hi Folks,

This issue has surfaced from time to time starting in the msg no.
2000-6000s.

Consider this for a short term fix - sand the peeling line with

fine

Quote
steel wool and use a polyurethane from a spray can covering about

4

Quote
inches on both sides of the line (ACE 17015).
For the long term, a LPU Two Part Linear Aliphatic Poly Urethane > Coating

This clear-coat acrylic polyurethane has the maximum amount of UV > blockers ... as well as moisture cured urethanes and, of course,

all

Quote
kinds of epoxies! ...
www.epoxyproducts.com/lpu.html

Look for a water soluable one component that is alipatic.
Her is the explaination -

"100% Solids Aliphatic Polyurethane Coatings - From Dream to

Reality"

Quote
In an aliphatic system, polyurethane coatings produced from the > reaction of ... available aliphatic polyurethane coatings have a

much

Quote
longer curing time (eg ...
www.geocities.com/pucoating/alipha.htm > The big concern is stretch and adherability because the fiberglass > roof is free floating.
This is one of the best -
416 Polyurethane Coating

Moisture Cure Aliphatic Polyurethane Coating. EPOXYSYSTEMS PRODUCT > #416 is a liquid applied, single-component, moisture cured,

aliphatic

Quote
polyurethane. ...
www.epoxysystems.com/416.htm

Now application is another issue, but fairly easy - any vehicle > painting firm should have the where-with-all. I plan on doing it > myself using equipment from Harbor Freight in California.

Fred Kovol

2000 Allure 30593

[quote author=beezer012345"

> The clear coat is chipping away on the sides of the roof of my > coach.
>

> Has anyone had this problem and if so how did you solve it?

Thanks

Re: Clear Coat Problem

Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 18043
Hi Joey and Debi,

I do the research on the internet using Google after talking with the folks that coat fiberglass airplanes (verieze, longeze, cozy, and other Burt Rutan(Scaled Composites) designs - X prise winner).
First 2 component urethanes were used but now single component is in used in the vehicle and airplane industry. Now for availability, I just google the subject with the added word 'sale'.
Fred Kovol

Quote from: Joey