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CAC

Yahoo Message Number: 18143
I just found out that the charge air cooler on my 01 Magna has failed. CC quoted me a price of $4950 for the unit, which seems like highway robbery to me. They will not tell me the name of the vendor... I was hoping I could get a better deal directly from them.
Does anyone have any info on the CAC vendor? I know that there has been a large number of CAC failures.

Thanks,

Randy, 01 Magna, # 5991

Re: CAC

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 18145
From: "randallafox" rfox2@...>

Quote
>I just found out that the charge air cooler on my 01 Magna has > failed. (snip)
I remember many years ago when the radiator in my dad's car leaked, so the radiator guy sealed and closed off the one passage that was leaking. It reduced the radiator's capacity and cooling ability by a small degree, but it worked fine. Can't the same be done with these troublesome CACs?

Dick (& Geri) Campagna
'98 36' Intrigue #10571
Mfd: 11/97

(still for sale)

Re: CAC

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 18164
I agree with you Dick. I don't understand why these are being repaired. The pressures involved are not much higher than an engines cooling system. If a guy doesn't mind getting dirty and muttering a few choice words, I am sure it could be accomplished by your basic shadetree mechanic. I'll tell you....if mine ever gives it up, I am R&R'ing it myself and I'll find someone to make the repair.

Mike

'95 Intrigue 10061

Quote from: Dick Campagna
> From: "randallafox"

>I just found out that the charge air cooler on my 01 Magna has > > failed. (snip)
> I remember many years ago when the radiator in my dad's car leaked,

so the

Quote
radiator guy sealed and closed off the one passage that was

leaking. It

Quote
reduced the radiator's capacity and cooling ability by a small

degree, but

Re: CAC

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 18179
I would do that if I had the time. The entire length of the weld on the left plumbing connection is bad... both sides! I refuse to pay the absurd price that CC wants for the part, so I will be having the existing one fixed if I cannot find another, more reasonable source for a new one.

Randy, 01 Magna # 5991

Quote from: Mike Brundage
> I agree with you Dick. I don't understand why these are being > repaired. The pressures involved are not much higher than an

engines

Quote
cooling system. If a guy doesn't mind getting dirty and muttering

a

Quote
few choice words, I am sure it could be accomplished by your basic > shadetree mechanic. I'll tell you....if mine ever gives it up, I

am

Quote
R&R'ing it myself and I'll find someone to make the repair.

Mike

'95 Intrigue 10061

[quote author=Dick Campagna"

> From: "randallafox"

> >I just found out that the charge air cooler on my 01 Magna has > > > failed. (snip)
>

> I remember many years ago when the radiator in my dad's car

leaked,

Quote
so the

> radiator guy sealed and closed off the one passage that was > leaking. It

> reduced the radiator's capacity and cooling ability by a small > degree, but

> it worked fine. Can't the same be done with these troublesome

CACs?

Re: CAC

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 18180
Welds on both sides? That is really strange since there are little to no thermal stresses involved here (not like the exhaust side).
It's almost like the flex connectors were not installed correctly or the mounting of the CAC is of poor design. If that is an aluminum casting, and I think it is, any decent welding/fabrication (like a race car fabricator) shop should be able to make the repair. You know another thing you might try is a diesel specialist shop. We've got a couple here in the Sacramento that I would get estimates from.
Anyway....I feel for you man. Shouldn't have to do this to a 4 year old rig.
Mike

95 Intrigue 10061

Quote from: randallafox
I would do that if I had the time. The entire length of the weld

on

Quote
the left plumbing connection is bad... both sides! I refuse to

pay

Quote
the absurd price that CC wants for the part, so I will be having

the

Quote
existing one fixed if I cannot find another, more reasonable

source

Quote
for a new one.

Randy, 01 Magna # 5991

[quote author=Mike Brundage"

> I agree with you Dick. I don't understand why these are being > > repaired. The pressures involved are not much higher than an > engines

> cooling system. If a guy doesn't mind getting dirty and

muttering

Quote
a

> few choice words, I am sure it could be accomplished by your

basic

Quote
shadetree mechanic. I'll tell you....if mine ever gives it up,

I

Re: CAC

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 18215
Randy.... Just for kicks, what happened that you found out it had failed? Conditions and/or symptoms? And five big ones DOES sound like a felony crime!

Bob

'02 Magna #6148
--

rfuzaksr@...

815-498-1776 (Home)
815-540-1332 (Cell)

Re: CAC

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 18218
As you probably know, my coach is powered by a C10. For the weight of the coach I think it is a bit underpowered, but I was very surprised at how poorly it would pull the hills here in northern Utah (I recently traded my 97 Intrigue for this Magna and the Intrigue easily outperforms it). So, after having several things checked re the power issue I finally had Cat do a CAC pressure test. The leak is so bad that it will not keep any pressure... not even a few pounds. They pulled the CAC this morning and now seem to think that it can be fixed, so I'm going to try that approach... it should save me about $4K. It should take care of the power problem... I hope!

Randy 01 Magna # 5991

Re: CAC

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 18350
Although you did not ask me I am replying. We did not know we had a CAC problem. We are new owners and went from gas to diesel. Gordon, (my hubby) thought we should be getting more power up hills but it was so much better than the gas we thought we were ok. BUT being new to this coach and not 100% how to use the Silverleaf we thought we were not getting the power we should have. At the Reunion some tech's looked and found a crack. We are unhappy and 5 grand is a bit high to fix this problem. One person said they would fix it there self. DO ANYONE NO SOMEONE WHO HAS FIXED THE PROBLEM.
Laura/Magna 5874

Randy.... Just for kicks, what happened that you found out it had failed? Conditions and/or symptoms? And five big ones DOES sound like a felony crime!

Bob

'02 Magna #6148
--

rfuzaksr@...

815-498-1776 (Home)
815-540-1332 (Cell)

Re: CAC

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 18358
Quote from: Laura
Although you did not ask me I am replying. We did not know we had
a CAC problem. We are new owners and went from gas to diesel.
Gordon, (my hubby) thought we should be getting more power up hills but it was so much better than the gas we thought we were ok. BUT being new to this coach and not 100% how to use the Silverleaf we thought we were not getting the power we should have. At the Reunion some tech's looked and found a crack. We are unhappy and 5 grand is a bit high to fix this problem. One person said they would fix it there self. DO ANYONE NO SOMEONE WHO HAS FIXED THE PROBLEM.

Quote
Laura/Magna 5874

Randy.... Just for kicks, what happened that you found out it had
failed? Conditions and/or symptoms? And five big ones DOES sound like a felony crime!

Quote
Bob

'02 Magna #6148

--

rfuzaksr@c...

815-498-1776 (Home)
815-540-1332 (Cell)

---------

Re: CAC

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 18359
Hi Randy,

We just came from the CC reunion and found during that time that we have the same problem, our friends that our like us just purchased a 2000 Magna and they have a crack in the CAC just like we do.
We heard that JB Radiator in California is the who the CAC unit.

It seems we will have have to get together and see what we can do about this problem. Many unhappy people here at the reunion with the same problem.
Laura/Magna 5974
985-788-4557

Re: CAC

Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 18360
Laura,

I apologize for not keeping the forum informed on our CAC problem.
We finally found a location that will take an existing CAC and rebuild it to OEM specs for a very reasonable price. It turns out that ours needed to have the core replaced, so the rebuilt CAC with a new core will end up costing us around $850 plus the labor to remove/replace it and the shipping. I don't have the exact dollar figure yet since they are doing it right now. It only takes them 2- 3 days and the rebuilt CAC has a 2 year warranty. The labor won't be much... Freightliner of UT had it pulled out in about an hour.
I don't have the name of the repair shop handy but I will post it as soon as I can.

It is a real mystery why CC needs 5 times this price for their part... it seems very excessive to me... but then that's just me.

Randy

01 Magna # 5991

Quote from: Laura
Although you did not ask me I am replying. We did not know we had
a CAC problem. We are new owners and went from gas to diesel.
Gordon, (my hubby) thought we should be getting more power up hills but it was so much better than the gas we thought we were ok. BUT being new to this coach and not 100% how to use the Silverleaf we thought we were not getting the power we should have. At the Reunion some tech's looked and found a crack. We are unhappy and 5 grand is a bit high to fix this problem. One person said they would fix it there self. DO ANYONE NO SOMEONE WHO HAS FIXED THE PROBLEM.

Quote
Laura/Magna 5874

Randy.... Just for kicks, what happened that you found out it had
failed? Conditions and/or symptoms? And five big ones DOES sound like a felony crime!

Quote
Bob

'02 Magna #6148

--

rfuzaksr@c...

815-498-1776 (Home)
815-540-1332 (Cell)

---------

Re: CAC

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 18368
As far as I know, I don't have this problem yet, but if I ever do, I might be tempted to try "Liquid Weld" on the crack. Anyone ever thought of, or tried this? I've talked to others whol have had very good experiences with this stuff and they swear by it.

Larry, Debbie, Tiki and Tomi (Pugs) Retired USAF

2003 Allure #30856

Quote from: randallafox

Laura,

I apologize for not keeping the forum informed on our CAC problem.
We finally found a location that will take an existing CAC and > rebuild it to OEM specs for a very reasonable price. It turns out > that ours needed to have the core replaced, so the rebuilt CAC with > a new core will end up costing us around $850 plus the labor to > remove/replace it and the shipping. I don't have the exact dollar > figure yet since they are doing it right now. It only takes them 2- > 3 days and the rebuilt CAC has a 2 year warranty. The labor won't > be much... Freightliner of UT had it pulled out in about an hour.

I don't have the name of the repair shop handy but I will post it

as

Quote
soon as I can.

It is a real mystery why CC needs 5 times this price for their > part... it seems very excessive to me... but then that's just me.

Randy

01 Magna # 5991

[quote author=Laura"

> Although you did not ask me I am replying. We did not know we

had

Quote
a CAC problem. We are new owners and went from gas to diesel.
Gordon, (my hubby) thought we should be getting more power up hills > but it was so much better than the gas we thought we were ok. BUT > being new to this coach and not 100% how to use the Silverleaf we > thought we were not getting the power we should have. At the > Reunion some tech's looked and found a crack. We are unhappy and 5 > grand is a bit high to fix this problem. One person said they

would

Quote
fix it there self. DO ANYONE NO SOMEONE WHO HAS FIXED THE PROBLEM.
> Laura/Magna 5874
>

> Randy.... Just for kicks, what happened that you found out it

had

Quote
failed? Conditions and/or symptoms? And five big ones DOES sound > like a felony crime!
>
> Bob

> '02 Magna #6148
>
> --

> rfuzaksr@c...

> 815-498-1776 (Home)
> 815-540-1332 (Cell)
>

> ---------

Re: CAC

Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 18398
We have had this problem. Yes we did pay the high price for the CAC and had it installed by a CAT Dealer.
You need to remember this is a combination unit that includes: CAC, Air Conditioner, Condenser and the Hydraulic Oil Cooler

Which is 3 separate radiators that are welded together.
The new units are bolted together, so in the future if you have a problem with one of them, you can replace just the problem one.
For the liquid weld, we talked with the repair facility it depended on the whether it was a horizontal or vertical crack. Which with ours it was a vertical so the liquid weld would have not worked.

Hopefully this information helps someone.

Re: CAC

Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 18407
What are the performance and physical symptoms of the CAC failing and what is the actual failure point? Is the failure only occuring in the welded assemblies, the bolted assemblies, or both?

Jim Hughes

2000 Allure #30511

Re: CAC

Reply #15 –
Yahoo Message Number: 18409
Jim,

I have a 2000 Magna ( #5798) I felt I did not have any power going uphill. That was the symptom... lack of power- boost. I was considering doing some modification to increase the horsepower when a tech showed me what the problem was. With the warm engine in high idle, he sprayed the CAC radiator area with soapy water and it bubbled where it was leaking. The leak was at the welds. CC replaced it over a year ago and it was not cheap. I was/am not a happy camper about this issue. Apparantly this was not an uncommon problem, but not widespread either. There must have been a batch with defective welds. I think the bolted ones are not failing. I also believe they have a different vendor now. That is the best of my knowledge on this.

Rosemary

Quote from: Jim Hughes

Re: CAC

Reply #16 –
Yahoo Message Number: 18410
We have a 22 pounds of turbo is this average or below average. We seem to have a vertical leak.
Laura/Magna 5874

Re: CAC

Reply #17 –
Yahoo Message Number: 18413
That's what I get (22PSI) max from my turbo on my ISL 370. Cummins told me this was good.

Larry, Debbie, Tiki and Tomi (Pugs) USAF Retired

2003 Allure #30856

Quote from: Laura
We have a 22 pounds of turbo is this average or below average. We
seem to have a vertical leak.

Re: CAC

Reply #18 –
Yahoo Message Number: 18420
Jim,

My failed CAC is the bolted unit. It has three failures, two being along welds between the side tanks and the radiator core, and the other being in the radiator core. The hydraulic portion of the unit has not failed.

As others have said, the symptoms are low power and elevated engine temp.

Randy

01 Magna, #5991

Quote from: Jim Hughes
What are the performance and physical symptoms of the CAC failing

and

Quote
what is the actual failure point? Is the failure only occuring in

the

Re: CAC

Reply #19 –
Yahoo Message Number: 18441
I checked my boost on my last trip going up a 6% grade at 5000 feet. The max boost that I noticed was 25 psi.

Ken

2000 Magna 5811

CAC

Reply #20 –
Yahoo Message Number: 18536
For those of you that have the misfortune of experiencing a CAC failure I have found a great place that will repair or replace to OEM specs for a very reasonable price. Ace Radiator,
www.aceradiator.com,

rebuilt mine with a new core for $1,250, which is thousands less than a CC replacement part. Send them your failed CAC and in a week or so they will have it back... with a 1 year guarantee.
If they can repair rather than replace then the cost is around $750.

Randy 01 Magna #5991

CAC

Reply #21 –
Yahoo Message Number: 20110
Hello just wanted to let you know that we had a weld job done on our Magna CAC while here in Yuma. We have only driven a few miles here and there since we got it done BUT we can tell the difference right away. Our turbo boost was 14 now it is 26. Hope it keeps up will keep everyone informed. Our crack was 8 inches long on the forward side.
Laura/Magna 5874

Re: CAC

Reply #22 –
Yahoo Message Number: 53704
Jay:

The "what is poor fuel economy" question seems hard to answer. My expectations come mostly from what other owners are claiming to achieve. In general, I think something between 7.5 and 8 is reasonable - that's on average terrain with some hills but not through miles and miles of mountain passes (which I sometimes do). In practice if I can get 7, it's a good week. It is usually under 7.
Although I don't like to spend money carelessly, I am not really concerned about the actual fuel cost of poor mileage - after all, if I need to save money, I should sell it and stay home!! But, I do want the engine to run as efficiently as it can for a number of other reasons - first, I believe that an inefficiently running engine will lead to all sorts of issues with early breakdown and excessive maintenance requirements and second, even though it seems weird to talk of environmental concerns while driving around in a motorhome, I want this coach to be as emissions efficient as it can be.
We live in a mountainous area but my experience over the past year has been a circumnavigation of the continental US so I think it's a pretty good mix. Our travel speed is always under 65 and usually at 60. We don't drive around in cities much - usually just to get in and out of the parking spot. Our coach runs at about 1500 lbs under it's rated capacity. We tow a Honda CRV loaded to about 3800lbs. Our "on-the road" total is about 36,000.

What is your experience?

Incidentally, the CAC was pressure tested, which showed a leak.
Richard Owen
'05 Inspire DaVinci 51442

Jay wrote:
Hello Richard,

What is "poor fuel economy" to you? What terrain is usual? How fast do you drive? Much town driving? Is your coach lightly loaded or maxed out? Toad?
What (other than fuel economy) led you to believe you have a leaky CAC?

Just curious. Thanks!
Jay

05 Inspire daVinci 51457 (CAT C9)

Re: CAC

Reply #23 –
Yahoo Message Number: 53718
All

I have an Allure 470 and flat tow a rubicon average mileage over 28k miles has been 7.2. As high as 10 with a tail wind and as low as 6 with head wind Jim

07 Allure 470
31535

Fuel Economy

Reply #24 –
Yahoo Message Number: 53721
All,

I have decided that when I was trying to keep track of MPG, I was never satisfied .I would rationalize a lower MPG was lower because I filled up this tank more than the last. Therefore the MPG was lower. I am a semi old guy 71, with a modest retirement, life is to short to sweat the small stuff, MPG is small stuff. If I don't have the money for the trip we just wait until we do.

Years ago when I checked I would get between 6 to almost 7 MPG.

Stan 2005 Inspire