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Tire inflation pressures re-visited-again

Yahoo Message Number: 20761
In the new issue of " MotorHome " magazine a Goodyear appears opposite page 14. It is a full page narrative about the importance of properly inflating motor home tires as well as instructions as to how to determine proper inflation. I strongly recommend you read this. NOWHERE DOES IT RECOMMEND A SINGLE INFLATION PRESSURE FOR A MOTOR HOME, rather it outlines the necessity of obtaining weights for each wheel position and use of a weight/inflation chart provided by the manufacturor.
Most of us, I think, have used the procedure recommended by Goodyear until CC ( Toyo?) came out with instructions to disregard the chart and carry placarded pressure regardless of weight. My experience is that this makes the coach ride like a farm wagon, so I doubt many people are following it. If they are, they're missing a superb ride built into their coach by CC. I've been told that the Toyo and Chas Schwab people have appeared at various rallies and said the charts should be ignored, and placarded pressures used. Query: Is Goodyear a better, safer tire than Toyo? If so, I would suggest all of us with Toyo tires replace them with Goodyears. Or, should this whole question be re-visited by CC without benefit of lawyers who I feel are behind this controversy.

Personally, I have a Toyo chart provided by CC when I purchased my coach and will continue to enjoy the superb ride so long as I own the coach.

Walt Rothermel

03Allure30811 ( for sale)

Re: Tire inflation pressures re-visited-again

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 20763

Walt,

I agree with you but since most people do not weigh their coach or read the speed restrictions on their tires I am in favor of what toyo is doing. We are all on the road together and I would rather be next to someone whose coach rides like a farm wagon then next to someone who ignores all the facts about tires. So I'm infavor of the CCI approach and let the people make their own decisions about how they run their tires. Besides if you buy a 45 foot coach with 4 slides and a motorcycle on the rear hitch plus a 10,000 pound trailer, then you really need 120 pounds in the tires.
Bill G. 2005 Magna #6425

Re: Tire inflation pressures re-visited-again

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 20764
Guess which coach manufacturer is going to be using Cat transmissions exclusivly for the next year.
TWI 2004 Intrigue 11731.

Re: Tire inflation pressures re-visited-again

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 20766
CCI is replacing all of my tires on my 99 because the inflation chart did not say 125psi. This is my second set of tires and they are under obligation from the Fed's to replace them even though I just bought them a few months ago. Go figger.

Larry Hanson
intrigue 10762

Re: Tire inflation pressures re-visited-again

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 20767
Hi Larry,

The coach we purchased has a placard inside the bathroom cabinet door which provides a CCC of 4000lbs and a 2 color weight sheet for each tire found in the accordian folder. Is there another placard somewhere providing tire pressures?

Fred Kovol

2000allure30593

Quote
CCI is replacing all of my tires on my 99 because the inflation
chart did not say 125psi. This is my second set of tires and they are under obligation from the Fed's to replace them even though I just bought them a few months ago. Go figger.

Re: Tire inflation pressures re-visited-again

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 20777
Its usually located below the Allison control unit mounted on the panel where your left knee would be while driving, facing the front entry door.
TWI 98 Allure 30255?Intrigue 11731

Re: Tire inflation pressures re-visited-again

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 20781
Well Walt,

I would buy a used coach from you because, I like the way you think. Your not going to follow the herd no matter where it takes you.
Another good article on tire pressure and maintenance can be found in "Country Coach Destinations" magazine, autum/ winter 03/04 page 19. This article came from country coach training and service department (prior to lawyering up).
I know that some don't care if their 1/2 million rig drives like a farm wagon. However, I feel many other things besides comfort can be affected by that rock hard ride, produced by going "max blow" on the tires.
How about windshields cracking or popping out of the mounts, charge air coolers cracking, radiators cracking, not to mention crystal and china. There must be a thousand things adversely affected by the increased vibration of a hard ride.
So, who are you going to listen to when it comes time to put air in your tires? Structural engineers that designed and built the tire with your safety and comfort in mind, or lawyers, with getting their kids in the best schools in mind? I know my answer.
IMHO!
Jim

2005 40' Inspire #51225

Re: Tire inflation pressures re-visited-again

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 20783

Jim,

Your reply to Walt sounds great but you are one of the few that will follow those directions. How many times have you read a note from someone on this site asking how many pounds of air you put in your tires. The only sure way to know that is to get a 4 or 6 point weigh and the only place you can do that is at an FMCA rally, there are a few other places but thats the best. I know people who have had 3 blow outs in two years. Not something I want to do. So we do all our home work, get the coach weighed at FMCA, have Smart tire, do not use valve extenders, carry a compressor in the coach(not the coach system) and monitor the tires with the straight tire gauge which is sold by Les Swab. We also do not go faster then 65 MPH even though we have a C-13 engine because our tires are rated at 65 MPH. I know that is lawyer talk but the lawyer did not make the tires and it is not his life. I'm glad to see the new Goodyear tires have a 75 mph rating but that does not help me with my 315s. I will also keep my tire air where it belongs but for others a farm wagon ride is the best way to go and if you have your coach loaded to the max a wagon ride is your only choise.

Bill G. 05 Magna #6425
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Re: Tire inflation pressures re-visited-again

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 20784

Walt,

Are you talking about CCI using the new Cat transmission? Who is going to make this transmission? Cat or some one else in Cats name. Newel should be happy because they are using a German transmission with the C-15 rather then reduce the hp on the engine. CCI had to go to the 600 Cummins engine to use the 4000 Allison. I guess with the Cat transmission CCI could eliminate the Cummins 600hp. Is this Cat transmission a rumor or a published fact?

Bill G. 2005 Magna #6425

Re: Tire inflation pressures re-visited-again

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 20786
"So we do all our home work, get the coach weighed at FMCA, have Smart tire, do not use valve extenders, carry a compressor in the coach(not the coach system) and monitor the tires with the straight tire gauge which is sold by Les Swab. We also do not go faster then 65 MPH even though we have a C-13 engine because our tires are rated at 65 MPH."

Well said Bill. I agree and "second that emotion!"

Ultimately SAFETY should trump comfort. To have a blowout, may involve more innocent people than just those in the offending coach with underinflated tires. That is the bottom line. Forget the lawyers...Accept responsibility for the choices you make and the consequences that result.

Tire inflation - Hey Walt!

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 20787
Hello Walt,

Would you be so kind as to scan the Toyo chart and post it in the photo section?

I have a light loaded coach and run my Toyos at 110 all around. I'd like to see if I'm in the ball park.

I enjoy your posts!

Jay in St Augustine

05 Inspire daVinci 51457

Quote from: spiker1029
Personally, I have a Toyo chart provided by CC when I purchased my > coach and will continue to enjoy the superb ride so long as I own

the

Re: Tire inflation pressures re-visited-again

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 20797
Bill, I don't know what you're talking about. I was just talking about tire inflation.
Walt Rothermel
03Allure30811( for sale)

Re: Tire inflation - Hey Walt!

Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 20798
Jay, I don't know how to do what you requested, but will give it a shot.you tried Toyo's web page?

Walt Rothermel
03Allure30811

Re: Tire inflation - Hey Walt!

Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 20799
Jay,

We own '05 Inspire s/n 51178, 36', quad slide with Toyo tires.
Check out the weight measurements that came with your coach - CC weighs them before they leave for the dealer and it should be in your paperwork.
In our case the rear axle is rated at 20,000 lbs and ours weighed 19,660 with no water or anything else at the factory. That's much additional capacity, but....
Reading the charts published in various map books and magazine, 20,000 lbs is the statutory limit for on highway use in almost all states - this is the reason the rear axle is rated at 20,000 lbs and I suspect that the true design capacity of the rear axle is probably higher - but I cannot find anything on the web to support that statement. The big issue would logically seem to be tire capacity which is inflation related. Inflated to 110 psi the rear tires are good to a little over 24,000 lbs. We run ours at 110 psi for this reason, it should cover anything we are likely to load into it and the rig rides fine, probably because it is 20,000 lbs plus heavy. We are mindful of overload, if we don't really need, it doesn't come with us.
The worrisome part is the current CC supplied tire pressure placard, at least in our case, does not address the loaded coach! Can I expect a new placard from CC to run max pressure? That's what we're doing anyway.

Bob Handren

'05 Inspire 51178

Re: Tire inflation - Hey Walt!

Reply #15 –
Yahoo Message Number: 20800
Hi Folks,

The TOYO M111Z sidewall has the following: Single 7200 lbs 120 psi - front max is 14400 lbs Dual 6320 lbs 110 psi - rear max is 25280 lbs This assumes a left-right even loading.
Our coach has a 600 lbs diffenrential on the rears so the weight carrying capacity is reduced accordingly.
Fred Kovol

2000allure30593

Re: Tire inflation pressures re-visited-again

Reply #16 –
Yahoo Message Number: 20801
Hi Fred,

The Official Placard is the one on the side of the console at the drivers left leg. It has the recommended inflation pressure. Some of the earlier coaches either did not have the placard or the inflation pressure was too low for the GVW. I recently asked about my coach and got the following response from CC:

Jim,

Model Year 1998 - 1999, Intrigue motor homes manufactured from 02/98 through 06/99

Country Coach, Inc. has decided that certain motor homes it manufactured fail to conform to Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard No. 120, Tire selection and rims for motor vehicles other than passenger. This noncompliance is related to Motor Vehicle Safety. The affected motor homes were inadvertently assigned inadequate cold tire inflation pressures on the front and rear axles. As a consequence, the motor homes have tire weight ratings that are less than the front and rear axle weight ratings. In some cases, this noncompliance could cause premature front tire tread wear or tire failure during normal driving.

Above is the recall statement. Clearly this recall does not affect your coach.

If you want to look at the entire recall notice visit the NHTSA Web Site and review file no 05V-398000.

The recall was generated because the air pressure as stated on the Federal Tire Tag was not correct. All Country Coach Motorhomes have Federal Tire Tags installed when they are shipped.

The tire tag will reflect the 12R/22.5 tires, and air pressures, as described in my previous e-mail. In addition to the above information all of the coaches involved in this issue were equipped with 275/70R/22.5 Tires.

Herb Hughes

Technical Service Representative
Country Coach, Inc.
1-800-452-8015

FAX 1-541-998-3204
www.countrycoach.com

Jim Hughes

2000 Allure #30511

Quote from: fredkovol
Hi Larry,

The coach we purchased has a placard inside the bathroom cabinet

door

Quote
which provides a CCC of 4000lbs and a 2 color weight sheet for

each

Quote
tire found in the accordian folder. Is there another placard

somewhere

Quote
providing tire pressures? >

Fred Kovol

2000allure30593

> CCI is replacing all of my tires on my 99 because the inflation > chart did not say 125psi. This is my second set of tires and they

are

Re: Tire inflation - Hey Walt!

Reply #17 –
Yahoo Message Number: 20803
If you look in the files section I put it there a few years ago. I do not use it and I recently replaced my tires and went with G670RV's. Toyo is no longer manufacturing the M111Z according to their website and CC. There are allot of Toyo's still available though.

Jim Hughes

2000 Allure #30511

Quote from: pelicanreef120
Hello Walt,

Would you be so kind as to scan the Toyo chart and post it in the
photo section?

I have a light loaded coach and run my Toyos at 110 all around.

I'd

Quote
like to see if I'm in the ball park.

I enjoy your posts!

Jay in St Augustine

05 Inspire daVinci 51457

[quote author=spiker1029"

>
>>

>

> Personally, I have a Toyo chart provided by CC when I purchased

my

Quote
coach and will continue to enjoy the superb ride so long as I

own

Re: Tire inflation pressures re-visited-again

Reply #18 –
Yahoo Message Number: 20804
Hi Jim,

I missed the big picture in my last reply. Please bear with me as there are 4 locations to consider for loading. Note: ( ) are mine.
I am trying to illustrate what it takes to make an informed decision as to what pressures to choose for the old approach and what loading margin is available for the new method (using the CCI pressures of 120psi Front and 110psi Rear.
1. Tires

7200# at 120psi (14,400# max front) 6320# at 110psi (25,280# max rear single axle (no tag)
2. Drivers side placard

13,200# at 120psi max front (note the reduction) 19,000# at 110psi max rear (note the reduction) (32,200#)
3. Behind bathroom cabinet door
GVWR 32,200#

UVW 26,073# full fuel, oil, coolant Water 880#
Propane 191#

SCWR 616# 4 persons

CCC 4,440# any additions and trailer tongue is subtracted
4. Wheel Weight Sheet (CCI weighing results)(in accordian folder)
LF 4768 RF 4691 (77# difference) FR 9405 RR 8042 (1363# difference) A line chart on the right of the above numbers shows 3 lines as follows:

0 to 40000# with the front axle at 9459# 0 to 40000# with the rear axle at 17448# 0 to 40000# with the total at 26906#
There is one weight discrepancy: UVM, water, propane and SCWR add up to 27760 vs the actual weight of 26909 or a 853 difference.

The 40000# line charts beg the question as to the true loading capability.

Twice, I have given my approach based on tire loading capability of 60# load per psi for a front tire and 57.45# per psi for a rear tire.
The loading for each front tire and each rear side is based on the six (6) point weighting procedure find in the 2000 addition of the TOYO brochure. Using the above, you can determine (1) what tire pressures are needed (old method) or (2) what spare loading for each position is available (new method).

Fred Kovol

2000allure30593

Re: Tire inflation pressures re-visited-again

Reply #19 –
Yahoo Message Number: 20805
Oh, its published fac t, look at Diesel Power Magazine. I called sales, CC had an Intrigue at Louisville for the dealer RV show with the new tranny. Its rated at 600 hp and1850 ft lbs of torque. Its smaller brother is rated at 400 HP and 1250 ft lbs. I have seen on the Newell site that they are offering a 600 hp version of the C-15 with 1800 ft lbs of torque for the Allison tranny. The larger Cat=CX31/smaller CX28. Now I can guess why the Cat Group was hovering around Bob Lee on 6th Street, while I was at THE CC Center for the HOMELESS, having my coach repaired. TWI 11731 2004 Intrigue.

Re: Tire inflation pressures re-visited-again

Reply #20 –
Yahoo Message Number: 20806
Its been awhile since I weighed in on this, but VP Wassenburger at CC told me that on 40' coaches 275R70 were being replaced by 275R80, 36' coaches were just having the tire replaced with the same size. But more importantly the coaches had to have the front two ride height valves exchanged with the single valve in the rear and replummed. With the 2 valves in the rear some of the weght could be transfered from the left front tire which could be 900lbs heavier than the right, to the rear duals. Eventually all Intrigues and Allures with slides that don't have 12R's should be fitted with 275R80's. LeSchwab was providing Continentals, as Toyo does not produce that size. After replacing left fronts and then both fronts, etc, etc. It gave me great peace of mind to install the 275 R80s. The ride improoved, smoother, more responsive, and quieter up front and the rear end stayed put, even in good ole' West Texas cross winds. So have someone crawl under your coach safely and see where the ride height valves are and check your tire sizes.
CC was paying to move the valves in 2000 when I changed tires. Unfortunatly I had a 36' coach and had to pay for all 6 tires. TWI 98 Allue 30255, PS I hope the current owner is reading this. Now 2004 Intrigue 11731.

Re: Tire inflation pressures re-visited-again

Reply #21 –
Yahoo Message Number: 20807
The M tire company chart is the same as Toyos, but they recommend an extra 10 lbs, if you drive for long periods above 60 mph. Question, has any one measured the depth of tread on the center and edges of the front tires at 120 lbs. with 10,000+ miles? At 21,000 miles when I had mine rotated the centered had worn down an 1/8 th of an inch more in the center, running 110 lbs in the front and 100 lbs in the rear. The Chart says I could run 105 lbs in the front and 85 in the rear and tag. But the coach feels sloppy going around courners and tends to drift or wander uncontrolably on crowned roads.
TWI 2004 Intrigue 11731 w/12r's

Re: Tire inflation pressures re-visited-again

Reply #22 –
Yahoo Message Number: 20810
All god info on tire pressure guys. I follow the recomeded 110 back 120 front. The only thing I would wounder about should I go any higher would be the rim specs. 120 MAX COLD PRESSURE, What your thought on the subject?

Marv swenson

2001 Intrigue #11314

Quote from: TWI
The M tire company chart is the same as Toyos, but they recommend

an extra

Quote
10 lbs, if you drive for long periods above 60 mph. Question, has

any one

Quote
measured the depth of tread on the center and edges of the front

tires at

Quote
120 lbs. with 10,000+ miles? At 21,000 miles when I had mine

rotated the

Quote
centered had worn down an 1/8 th of an inch more in the center,

running 110

Quote
lbs in the front and 100 lbs in the rear. The Chart says I could

run 105

Quote
lbs in the front and 85 in the rear and tag. But the coach feels

sloppy

Quote
going around courners and tends to drift or wander uncontrolably

on crowned

Quote
roads.
TWI 2004 Intrigue 11731 w/12r's >