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Hot transmission fluid

Yahoo Message Number: 23760
Hi all,

After three years of dealing with hot transmission fluid in my 2004 Inspire, I made the decision to install a Hayden cooler. Prior to the installation the transmission fluid would run at 210 degrees and if stuck in traffic it would approach 230 degrees. Many times I would pull off the road and park to allow the transmission fluid to cool down. Backing-up transmission fluid temperature would always approach 250 degrees. After installing the Hayden cooler my transmission fluid temperature remained constant at 165 degrees running down the highway. Backing temperature was 180 degrees.
This solution was not cheap, the cooler cost $321 and installation was $200, but it was well worth the cost to have peace of mind about the transmission. I run the VMSpc program on a Dell laptop so I am confident of the transmission fluid temperature read outs. I made the decision to install the cooler after reading the article on allison transmissions in the FMCA publication. If anyone wants to solve the overheating problem with the allison transmission I would recommend installing a Hayden transmission cooler.

Thanks,

Jon Gullette

2004 Inspire 40' #51008

Re: Hot transmission fluid

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 23761
Hi Jon,

It is very important to boil out moisture otherwise expect to change the fluid more frequiently. And that may not due it - leading to premature component failures. Consider partially covering the cooler to get the temperature up to at least 180deg F.
Fred Kovol

Re: Hot transmission fluid

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 23762
Jon,

I have an inspire very close to yours....510023. I am curious as to how often your transmission climbed above 210. Mine runs below 210 except when climbing a steep grade, then it will approach 210 but only once climbed a little above that. I am not sure I one would call this a problem or not. I have never had any overheat codes etc. Just wondering what your opinion is.

Re: Hot transmission fluid

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 23764
JON

165 deg is not hot enough as Fred K. stated moisture is a big enemy of automatic trans over time. The seals and O rings will be damaged if water vapor is not driven out. Which if they start to leak internally it will lower internal pressures. Under heavy load (up hill)low pressure will damage the cluches. You will not know about the damage before it is to late. I agree With Fred get it up to 180F Peaking at 210 deg is not a bad thing. Backing temps are not a good bases for evaluating trans temps.
Marv

intrigue 11314

It is very important to boil out moisture otherwise expect to change the fluid more frequiently. And that may not due it - leading to premature component failures. Consider partially covering the cooler to get the temperature up to at least 180deg F.
Fred Kovol

Quote from: Jon Gullette
>

Hi all,

After three years of dealing with hot transmission fluid in my

2004

Quote
Inspire, I made the decision to install a Hayden cooler. Prior to > the installation the transmission fluid would run at 210 degrees

and

Quote
if stuck in traffic it would approach 230 degrees. Many times I > would pull off the road and park to allow the transmission fluid

to

Quote
cool down. Backing-up transmission fluid temperature would always > approach 250 degrees. After installing the Hayden cooler my > transmission fluid temperature remained constant at 165 degrees > running down the highway. Backing temperature was 180 degrees.
This solution was not cheap, the cooler cost $321 and installation > was $200, but it was well worth the cost to have peace of mind

about

Quote
the transmission. I run the VMSpc program on a Dell laptop so I

am

Quote
confident of the transmission fluid temperature read outs. I made > the decision to install the cooler after reading the article on > allison transmissions in the FMCA publication. If anyone wants to > solve the overheating problem with the allison transmission I

would

Re: Hot transmission fluid

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 23767
At the Allison seminar at CC Home Comming, Allison reps said they wanted 190 to 200 degree in the sump under normal Conditions. TWI 2004 Intrigue

Re: Hot transmission fluid

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 23768
Does anyone know where the VMS measures the transmission temp? My VMS shows 165 but the dash gauge shows 190-200. This is after CC installe d the Hayden cooler. Before I was 215 on the highway and if I got caught in traffic it hit 245-250 in moments unless I constantly shifted from neutral to drive. I bought a CC because I heard from everyone that their chassis was a no problem situation. I should have bought something else because this chassis is a pain.

Bob

'05 Intrigue 11872

Re: Hot transmission fluid

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 23770
Jon,

Which Hayden cooler did you get? Where did they mount it? Thanks, Todd

Inspire 04' 51084

Re: Hot transmission fluid

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 23771
Hi Bob,

The VMS is reading the bus data which is connected to the engine ECM, transmission computer (Allison transmission controller and intergral ECU) and ABS/ATC computer (Rockwell Wabco ABS module). The transmission computer is reporting temperature from its sensors. The question is where are the sensors. The transmission computer uses this information to limit shifting when temperature exceeds predefined limits. The dash gauge has its own sensor (OEM sensor) - where it is located is the question as the OEM sensor (also installed by CCI) and the transmission sensor(s) can be in different locations on the transmission. My coach does not have a transmission temperature gauge so the previous sentence is only a guess based on other OEM sensor installations. The connector under the dash is labeled Allison transmission reader port and the connectors in the service bay are 9 pin and 6 pin rear reader ports. The electrical and data standards are labeled on the rear ports. Re: schematic #S0699 foldout Fred Kovol

Quote
Does anyone know where the VMS measures the transmission temp? My

VMS

Quote
shows 165 but the dash gauge shows 190-200. This is after CC

installe

Quote
d the Hayden cooler. Before I was 215 on the highway and if I got > caught in traffic it hit 245-250 in moments unless I constantly > shifted from neutral to drive. I bought a CC because I heard from > everyone that their chassis was a no problem situation. I should

have

Re: Hot transmission fluid

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 23777
The Allison sensor for temp is in the sump, the CC sensor is connected to the output feed to the cooler for the tranny and that is why it reads so much higher than the sump reservoir in the bottom of the tranny.
TWI 2004 Intrigue 11731

Re: Hot transmission fluid

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 23778
Ray,

My transmission temp would run at 205-210 degrees most of the time.
When backing my temperature would reach 250 degrees. My concern is the breakdown of the transmission fluid. Sound like yours is ok.

Thanks,

Jon Gullette

2004 Inspire 40' #51008

Quote from: Ray Reeves\[br\
]
Jon,

I have an inspire very close to yours....510023. I am curious as
to how often your transmission climbed above 210. Mine runs below 210 except when climbing a steep grade, then it will approach 210 but only once climbed a little above that. I am not sure I one would call this a problem or not. I have never had any overheat codes etc.
Just wondering what your opinion is.

Quote
>

Jon Gullette wrote:
 Hi all,

After three years of dealing with hot transmission fluid in my

2004

Quote
Inspire, I made the decision to install a Hayden cooler. Prior to > the installation the transmission fluid would run at 210 degrees

and

Quote
if stuck in traffic it would approach 230 degrees. Many times I > would pull off the road and park to allow the transmission fluid

to

Quote
cool down. Backing-up transmission fluid temperature would always > approach 250 degrees. After installing the Hayden cooler my > transmission fluid temperature remained constant at 165 degrees > running down the highway. Backing temperature was 180 degrees.
This solution was not cheap, the cooler cost $321 and installation > was $200, but it was well worth the cost to have peace of mind

about

Quote
the transmission. I run the VMSpc program on a Dell laptop so I am > confident of the transmission fluid temperature read outs. I made > the decision to install the cooler after reading the article on > allison transmissions in the FMCA publication. If anyone wants to > solve the overheating problem with the allison transmission I

would

Re: Hot transmission fluid

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 23780
Todd,

The invoice shows a Hayden part #HDN1292. It is mounted on the outboard side of the radiator.
Jon,

2004 Inspire 40' #51008

Quote from: toddbmcc

Re: Hot transmission fluid

Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 23782
So, basically, before the tranny cooler I was 216 in the sump driving on level pavement, 240 in stop and go traffic, and almost 250 if I didn't put the tranny in neutral at every stoplight. So I complained to CC and they installed a tranny cooler that now gives me 160 driving, 175 in stop and go traffic, and 180 in town with lots of stop lights and I don't play the neutral/drive game. If Allison wants 180 on level driving, its obvious that CC just wanted me to go away and really didn't care if it was properly engineered. In my prior life we called that "EBI", "Engineered by Idiots". I suspect that CC totally messed up when they installed the C13 in these coaches and now they are just randomly installing inadequate fixes when the customer complains. Tell me again why buying a CC coach is a good deal?

Bob

'05 Intrigue 11872

Re: Hot transmission fluid

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 23789
Marv,

I agree that operating below the normal operating range can create problems. The same goes for virtually all internal combustion engines. Volkswagen found that out real quick with it's first US imported Bugs shortly after the war. Built in level country the air cooled engine had no way of controlling heating going up hills or cooling coming down the other side. The acids that formed due to fluctuating temps was eating up the blocks in less that 20k miles. They installed a thermostatically control flap in the air system to even out the block temps and that took care of the problem. It is a good reason to not let a cold engine come up to operating temperature with no load on it. It takes too long.
A couple of weeks ago I was sitting in single lane construction waiting 15 or 20 minutes for the 'Follow Me' car in my Jeep Liberty. I began to wonder what my tranny temp was doing. You know I actually shifted it into neutral with no idea of the temp. That got me to thinking on all of the posts. I know that I am going to get really slammed for this but is the problem the actual temps or knowing the actual temps? Why do I need to know the tranny temp in my coach? For years I relied on the fact that since the tranny is solidly attached to the engine then any serious overheating is going to overheat the engine. If Allison had a lot of serious worries about heating then why do they not monitor the Maxi-Brake and slip the tranny into neutral if it is set. It is very easy to pull into a pit stop, set the Maxi-Brake and forget to put the transmission into neutral. If you leave that diesel idling for very long you will peg the meter. I know, I have done it not once but twice. I'm a slow learner. It will return quickly once you get under way. I checked the fluid later and it looked fine, smelled fine and felt fine. Should I be worried? I suppose so but I just feel that there is more fat in the tranny than that. Plus I bet it is dry as a bone in there.

Don Seager

2004 Allure 31046

Re: Hot transmission fluid

Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 23795
When installing extra coolers in automobiles you put the aux cooler before the cooler in the radiator assembly so the fluid doesn't get tooooo cold. Sounds like they hooked them up backwards.
TWI 2004 Intrigue 11731

Re: Hot transmission fluid

Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 23804
Well said, Don. I guess I'm retiring from RVing just in time, as all the controversy over tranny temp just overwhelms me. My first two CC's, 97 and 2000 Intrigues, didn't even have transmission temp gauges. At a CC rally I asked an Allison rep if I should add a gauge to my 2000 as all the other mfgs seemed to have them. His response was just as you said, namely that if the engine wasn't overheating the tranny probably wasn't either. Now I have a tranny temp gauge and it appears that isn't good enough---I need a Siverleaf to give me a more accurate reading--but, guess what, I can't rely on that reading until I find out where the sensor is that records it.
For pete's sake, how many failures of Allison trannies have we heard of? In my ten years of owning a deisel with such a tranny I've heard of one in a Monaco Executive, and it was due to an internel mechanical failure, not high temperature.
My advice to those worried about this is to lighten up and enjoy their rigs. Buy an extended warranty if it makes you feel better, but service your tranny as recommended and drive the Hell out of it. I'm a firm believer that too much data is just as dangerous as not enough.

Walt Rothermel

03Allure30811--Still for sale( with no tranny problems)

Re: Hot transmission fluid

Reply #15 –
Yahoo Message Number: 23805
Walt:

Here! Here!

Chuck Penque

03 Intrigue 11673 (with a normal operating transmission- not too hot, not too cold)