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Pardon my ignorance, but...

Yahoo Message Number: 23946
We're in a park with "iffy" power. Yesterday, while running 1 roof air and the fridge and all other heaters off, I noted incoming voltage had dropped to 103 vac! The A/C load had increased from 15 to 18 running amps. Scared the heck out of me, so I disconnected the shore power and started the Gen. I have seen the coach divorce from shorepower automatically on low voltage, but I was not watching the gauges at the time. I don't like to depend on safety features to save my cookies.
Question: At what voltage/load amps will damage probably occur to the coaches electrical equipment? Which load will be damaged first?

Claude

Re: Pardon my ignorance, but...

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 23950
Claude,

The CB box has circuit breakers for the inverter for distribution to the outlets, the roof air conditioners, washer/dryer and refrigerator.
When measuring the voltage at any outlet - the voltage for some reason is lower than measuring at the CB box. I have added test points at the CB box at the input side for that reason.
60 yrs ago it was 110vac, then to 115 and now the standard is 117vac; below 110vac is where I stop using shore power. I don't worry so much about load amps as the CBs take care of that for instantaneous overloads but remember the CB will not trip at all or after several hours at rated load (eg a 50A breaker will not trip at 50A - it does depend on the type but for standard house installation, it may take hours). I get concerned if greater than 45 amps from shore power. An 8000w generator is rated at 33.33 amps per leg for reference and its CBs are 35 amp.

Fred Kovol

Quote
We're in a park with "iffy" power. Yesterday, while running 1 roof

air

Quote
and the fridge and all other heaters off, I noted incoming voltage

had

Quote
dropped to 103 vac! The A/C load had increased from 15 to 18

running

Quote
amps. Scared the heck out of me, so I disconnected the shore power

and

Quote
started the Gen. I have seen the coach divorce from shorepower > automatically on low voltage, but I was not watching the gauges at

the

Quote
time. I don't like to depend on safety features to save my cookies.

Question: At what voltage/load amps will damage probably occur to

the

Norcold 1200LRIM Refrigerator

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 23954
I have been having the following problem with my Norcold 1200LRIM refrigerator. Does anyone have any idea what is the root cause and what can be done? Like most problems this one seems to be intermittent!
For two days I monitored the refrigerator's performance. During these two days, the outside, ambient temperatures were approximately 105 degrees. The first day the temperature in the refrigerator compartment rose to approximately 41 degrees. I took this to be an expected reaction to the extremely hot outside temperatures. Then during the evening of the first day, I noticed the compartment temperature jumped in just a few minutes from 41 degrees to 46 degrees. Overnight, the compartment temperature only dropped to 41 degrees, while outside temperature dropped to low 90s. So, on the second day, I decided to take preventative action. I removed the outside cover on the refrigerator access, placed a ladder there, put a fan on the ladder blowing at full speed into the back of the refrigerator compartment and rigged up a shade-producing covering over the access opening. This caused a very slight improvement but only kept the compartment temperature from rising above 41 degrees.
The outside temperatures declined significantly following the second day and the compartment temperature started dropping and with outside temperatures of low to mid 80s and nighttime temperatures of around 70 degrees, I chalked all of the high temperatures to just not being able to cope with the high outside temperatures.
Then, all of a sudden, I noticed that the compartment temperature rose to 41 degrees. So, I decided to place the refrigerator in diagnostic mode and from screen 3 of the diagnostic mode I discovered that the fin tip temperature in the compartment was 37 degrees while the service/repair manual said that fin tip temperatures were supposed to be in the 18 to 25 degree range. I went outside and checked the back side of the refrigerator and both the cooling unit and the abosorber coils were at ambient temperature indicating that no cooling was taking place. Within an hour or so, without my doing anything, the refrigerator started cooling again and the fin tip temperature dropped to 29 degrees and there it stayed the remainder of the day and night (it never did get down to the 18-25 degrees that is considered "normal"). This caused the compartment temperature to drop some---but only down to around 40.6 degrees.
Overnight, last night, the fin temperature, and therefore the compartment temperature, started dropping. Fin temperature finally reached 23 degrees and compartment temperature reached 37 degrees. I have monitored these temperatures along with the outside temperatures on an hourly basis since 4:00 am this morning and the fin temperature has not varied from 23 degrees and the compartment temperature has maintained a steady 37 degrees, even though the outside temperatures have increased from 74 degrees to 94 degrees. This tells me that increased outside temperatures DO NOT have an adverse effect on fin temperature and comparment temperature if everything is working properly. So my conclusion about the first two days of this experience is incorrect.
I have also monitored screens 4 and 5 of the diagnostic mode of the refrigerator and there have been no fault codes registered on either of these screens. I never got the dreaded "no co" message, nor did the reefer ever enter the Backup Operating System (BOS). Therefore, diagnostics indicate that everything is normal, but monitored temperatures indicate otherwise.

Brian Davis

2005 42' Intrigue LE Ovation Triple Slide Coach #11901

Re: Pardon my ignorance, but...

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 23958
Thanks Fred, but could you expand on your statement, "...remember the CB will not trip at all or after several hours at rated load (eg a 50A breaker will not trip at 50A - it does depend on the type but for standard house installation, it may take hours)...". Does that mean that the CB will only trip at something greater than it's trip rating? That would make sense to me.
On my panel, I can only read the amp load in each leg after shorepower is split. I would seem reasonable that by adding the two ammeter readings I would get the total load on the shorepower breaker at the post. I'm still curious about which does more damage to the A/C, laptop, TV, etc: low voltage or high load? In other words, when is it OK for me to have the willies? Thanks again,
Claude

1997 Affinity #5448

Re: Pardon my ignorance, but...

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 23960
Hi Claude,

Please click on this link to answer your first question:
http://www.altechcorp.com/HTML/TABLE.HTM
Theoretically, you have 50 amps available in each leg.
Low voltage is the concern - 110 vac minimum, anything with motors - air conditioning then microwave for longer thsn 1 minute. You can always look at the name plate on each item for voltage range. If it just says 117vac, it will degrade if the voltage drops more than 3%.
Fred Kovol

Re: Pardon my ignorance, but...

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 23963
Got it. We should all be aware of this, as many of our older parks suffer from voltage (or no voltage) problems when it's hot or when the park is full.
Thanks again,
Claude

1997 Affinity #5448

Re: Pardon my ignorance, but...

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 23978
We just went out yesterday and bought a Hughes Autoformer...the last one Camping World in San Marcos, CA had...it's great! We had had some problems with this campground before but were always just marginal.
From what we've learned, anything below 106 Volts is too iffy to run the AC without some potential damage. We dropped to that without any AC on, or anything other than the refrig, so decided we HAD to do something. This is terrific...boosts our voltage to about 115 or as needed to run the AC and a few other things. You lose total amps, but it will increase the voltage enough to run the AC so we're happy. At least once a year we run into low voltages in older parks on 30 amp, so this is now our safety net in those.
I'd recommend it...it's a lifesaver in this So. CA heat! (or anywhere else right now in the US it seems.) Jan McNeill

2001 Intrigue 11320

Still trying to convince the park owner his power is crappy!

Re: Pardon my ignorance, but...

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 23979
Thanks Jan, we're in SoCal too, at Pio Pico. We've been using an autoformer for about 7 years, but it isn't working. I need to get it fixed or replaced. When it works it's great! Claude

1997 Affinity #5448

Re: Pardon my ignorance, but...

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 23996
Autoformers make up the voltage by drawing addional amps on the input side. I would think the use of them could be problematic at least for the other users on the same line. Has anyone heard or have an opinion from an engineers standpoint? I had a chance for one free at one time, but, turned it down because I thought hauling the weight for limited use was not worth it. Maybe I should have gotten it?

ddtuttle

2000 Allure #30443

Re: Norcold 1200LRIM Refrigerator

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 24010
Quote from: Brian & Gwen Davis
r />]
Brian,

I also have been some diagnostics on my Norcold. Here are a few ideas that might help you. First, if youl have an ice maker in the left freezer comlpartment you will have to turn it off to get any accurate readings. Consider; if you are tapped into outside water and the hose is laying in the sun the water temp inside could be well over 120 degrees. So, each time your ice maker dumps it injects very hot water into the freezer compartment. Also, just before dumping the ice maker heats the cube cups so they will discharge. More heat into the refer.
Another thought--there is a cup in the outside compartment that collects water from the defrost cycle. Keep the discharge hose submerged in water to prevent hot air from going up the tube into the freezer. Lastly, your Norcold has a defrost cycle that is very aggravating. It heats the cooling fins to melt frost build up.
Sounds ok but the fact is it cycles much too often. On a 100+ degree day the refer will have a hard time recovering from this cycle which seems to be every two days or so. I have tried talking to Norcold but they are not very helpful. It would be nice if we could turn the defrost cycle off and only use it when needed. A further thought.
Where is your refer set. If you leave it on 9 it will run all the time and the outside box will be too high to allow the condensation cycle to work effectively. A small 12vdc computer fan installed in that compartment may increase air flow a bit and thus allow condensation to occur. Just some thoughts for you. I would welcome comments from other forum members to see what they think about these points.

Lyle Wetherholt
04 Intrigue 11740

Quote
>

I have been having the following problem with my Norcold 1200LRIM
refrigerator. Does anyone have any idea what is the root cause and what can be done? Like most problems this one seems to be intermittent!

Quote
>

For two days I monitored the refrigerator's performance. During
these two days, the outside, ambient temperatures were approximately 105 degrees. The first day the temperature in the refrigerator compartment rose to approximately 41 degrees. I took this to be an expected reaction to the extremely hot outside temperatures. Then during the evening of the first day, I noticed the compartment temperature jumped in just a few minutes from 41 degrees to 46 degrees. Overnight, the compartment temperature only dropped to 41 degrees, while outside temperature dropped to low 90s. So, on the second day, I decided to take preventative action. I removed the outside cover on the refrigerator access, placed a ladder there, put a fan on the ladder blowing at full speed into the back of the refrigerator compartment and rigged up a shade-producing covering over the access opening. This caused a very slight improvement but only kept the compartment temperature from rising above 41 degrees.

Quote
>

The outside temperatures declined significantly following the second
day and the compartment temperature started dropping and with outside temperatures of low to mid 80s and nighttime temperatures of around 70 degrees, I chalked all of the high temperatures to just not being able to cope with the high outside temperatures.

Quote
>

Then, all of a sudden, I noticed that the compartment temperature
rose to 41 degrees. So, I decided to place the refrigerator in diagnostic mode and from screen 3 of the diagnostic mode I discovered that the fin tip temperature in the compartment was 37 degrees while the service/repair manual said that fin tip temperatures were supposed to be in the 18 to 25 degree range. I went outside and checked the back side of the refrigerator and both the cooling unit and the abosorber coils were at ambient temperature indicating that no cooling was taking place. Within an hour or so, without my doing anything, the refrigerator started cooling again and the fin tip temperature dropped to 29 degrees and there it stayed the remainder of the day and night (it never did get down to the 18-25 degrees that is considered "normal"). This caused the compartment temperature to drop some---but only down to around 40.6 degrees.

Quote
>

Overnight, last night, the fin temperature, and therefore the
compartment temperature, started dropping. Fin temperature finally reached 23 degrees and compartment temperature reached 37 degrees. I have monitored these temperatures along with the outside temperatures on an hourly basis since 4:00 am this morning and the fin temperature has not varied from 23 degrees and the compartment temperature has maintained a steady 37 degrees, even though the outside temperatures have increased from 74 degrees to 94 degrees. This tells me that increased outside temperatures DO NOT have an adverse effect on fin temperature and comparment temperature if everything is working properly. So my conclusion about the first two days of this experience is incorrect.

Quote
>

I have also monitored screens 4 and 5 of the diagnostic mode of the
refrigerator and there have been no fault codes registered on either of these screens. I never got the dreaded "no co" message, nor did the reefer ever enter the Backup Operating System (BOS). Therefore, diagnostics indicate that everything is normal, but monitored temperatures indicate otherwise.

Quote
Brian Davis

2005 42' Intrigue LE Ovation Triple Slide > Coach #11901

Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls.
Great rates starting at 1¢/min.

Re: Norcold 1200LRIM Refrigerator

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 24012
Lyle,

Thanks so much for your reply. As it so happens, I just got off of the telephone with Norcold and, as you said, they were absolutely no help whatsoever. In fact, I would say that they were somewhat offended that I had as much knowledge and empirical data as I did. They were also offended that I knew how to place the refrigerator into the diagnostic mode and had the audacity to read information from the various diagnostic screens therein.
I haven't had a problem with the freezer compartment. It has maintained a very steady 0 degrees. All of my problems have been with rising temperatures in the refrigerator portion which have been simultaneously accompanied by a precipitous rise in the "fin temperature" as shown in diagnostic screen 3. In the space of an hour the "fin temperature" will rise from 23 degrees to as high as 37 degrees. This rise in "fin temperature" has resulted in increases of anywhere from 4 to 10 degrees in the refrigerator portion of the reefer.
From your message, I have deduced that the culprit for all of my problems is the defrost cycle that you mentioned. Having tracked everything now for six days, I noticed the pattern that the big, quick jumps in temperature were occurring just about every two days!! You're right, it's very aggravating. In the 100+ degree days, it takes about 12 hours for the refrigerator to recover from this defrost cycle. I just don't understand why so many manufacturers of motorhome related equipment try and save us from ourselves. If I want the damned thing defrosted, let me defrost it manually just like I've always done for years!!!
Equally aggravating is the fact that when talking to Norcold they briefly volunteered that there was a defrost cycle, but later in the conversation when I specifically mentioned that this problem was occurring almost every two days to the hour, they never re-mentioned the defrost cycle to tell me that a two day interval was associated with that defrost cycle.
The defrost cycle certainly explains why the reefer begins to cool again after a while with no "urging" on my part. Thanks for this explanation and it puts me somewhat at ease.
Norcold assigned me an "Incident Number" and I already have an appointment at a Norcold Service Center for next Monday, so I'll let them run some tests, but I'm sure you have answered my quandry.

Again my thanks,

Brian Davis
Coach #11901

Re: Norcold 1200LRIM Refrigerator

Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 24020
It also has been my experience that Norcold is the least friendly vender I have had dealings with. Kind of makes you look to Dometic for future refers.

ddtuttle

2000 Allure #30443

Re: Norcold 1200LRIM Refrigerator

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 24027
Lyle

Can you please share with us how to put the fridge in diagnostic mode? Thanks.

Larry, 2003 Allure #30856

Quote from: Brian & Gwen Davis\[br\
] >

Lyle,
> Thanks so much for your reply. As it so happens, I just got off of
the telephone with Norcold and, as you said, they were absolutely no help whatsoever. In fact, I would say that they were somewhat offended that I had as much knowledge and empirical data as I did.
They were also offended that I knew how to place the refrigerator into the diagnostic mode and had the audacity to read information from the various diagnostic screens therein.

Quote
>

I haven't had a problem with the freezer compartment. It has
maintained a very steady 0 degrees. All of my problems have been with rising temperatures in the refrigerator portion which have been simultaneously accompanied by a precipitous rise in the "fin temperature" as shown in diagnostic screen 3. In the space of an hour the "fin temperature" will rise from 23 degrees to as high as 37 degrees. This rise in "fin temperature" has resulted in increases of anywhere from 4 to 10 degrees in the refrigerator portion of the reefer.

Quote
>

From your message, I have deduced that the culprit for all of my
problems is the defrost cycle that you mentioned. Having tracked everything now for six days, I noticed the pattern that the big, quick jumps in temperature were occurring just about every two days!! You're right, it's very aggravating. In the 100+ degree days, it takes about 12 hours for the refrigerator to recover from this defrost cycle. I just don't understand why so many manufacturers of motorhome related equipment try and save us from ourselves. If I want the damned thing defrosted, let me defrost it manually just like I've always done for years!!!

Quote
>

Equally aggravating is the fact that when talking to Norcold they
briefly volunteered that there was a defrost cycle, but later in the conversation when I specifically mentioned that this problem was occurring almost every two days to the hour, they never re-mentioned the defrost cycle to tell me that a two day interval was associated with that defrost cycle.

Quote
>

The defrost cycle certainly explains why the reefer begins to cool
again after a while with no "urging" on my part. Thanks for this explanation and it puts me somewhat at ease.

Quote
>

Norcold assigned me an "Incident Number" and I already have an
appointment at a Norcold Service Center for next Monday, so I'll let them run some tests, but I'm sure you have answered my quandry.

Quote
>

Again my thanks,

Brian Davis
Coach #11901

Lyle Wetherholt

wrote:

Quote from: Brian & Gwen Davis

[quote
/>
Quote
>]
Brian,

I also have been some diagnostics on my Norcold. Here are a few

ideas

Quote
that might help you. First, if youl have an ice maker in the left > freezer comlpartment you will have to turn it off to get any

accurate

Quote
readings. Consider; if you are tapped into outside water and the

hose

Quote
is laying in the sun the water temp inside could be well over 120 > degrees. So, each time your ice maker dumps it injects very hot

water

Quote
into the freezer compartment. Also, just before dumping the ice

maker

Quote
heats the cube cups so they will discharge. More heat into the

refer.

Quote
Another thought--there is a cup in the outside compartment that > collects water from the defrost cycle. Keep the discharge hose > submerged in water to prevent hot air from going up the tube into

the

Quote
freezer. Lastly, your Norcold has a defrost cycle that is very > aggravating. It heats the cooling fins to melt frost build up.
 Sounds ok but the fact is it cycles much too often. On a 100+

degree

Quote
day the refer will have a hard time recovering from this cycle

which

Quote
seems to be every two days or so. I have tried talking to Norcold

but

Quote
they are not very helpful. It would be nice if we could turn the > defrost cycle off and only use it when needed. A further thought.
 Where is your refer set. If you leave it on 9 it will run all the > time and the outside box will be too high to allow the condensation > cycle to work effectively. A small 12vdc computer fan installed in > that compartment may increase air flow a bit and thus allow > condensation to occur. Just some thoughts for you. I would

welcome

Quote
comments from other forum members to see what they think about

these

Quote
points.
 Lyle Wetherholt
 04 Intrigue 11740
 >

> I have been having the following problem with my Norcold 1200LRIM > refrigerator. Does anyone have any idea what is the root cause and > what can be done? Like most problems this one seems to be
intermittent!

Quote

> For two days I monitored the refrigerator's performance. During > these two days, the outside, ambient temperatures were
approximately

Quote
105 degrees. The first day the temperature in the refrigerator > compartment rose to approximately 41 degrees. I took this to be an > expected reaction to the extremely hot outside temperatures. Then > during the evening of the first day, I noticed the compartment > temperature jumped in just a few minutes from 41 degrees to 46 > degrees. Overnight, the compartment temperature only dropped to 41 > degrees, while outside temperature dropped to low 90s. So, on the > second day, I decided to take preventative action. I removed the > outside cover on the refrigerator access, placed a ladder there,

put a

Quote
fan on the ladder blowing at full speed into the back of the > refrigerator compartment and rigged up a shade-producing covering

over

Quote
the access opening. This caused a very slight improvement but only > kept the compartment temperature from rising above 41 degrees.
 >

> The outside temperatures declined significantly following the

second

Quote
day and the compartment temperature started dropping and with

outside

Quote
temperatures of low to mid 80s and nighttime temperatures of

around 70

Quote
degrees, I chalked all of the high temperatures to just not being

able

Quote
to cope with the high outside temperatures.
 >

> Then, all of a sudden, I noticed that the compartment temperature > rose to 41 degrees. So, I decided to place the refrigerator in > diagnostic mode and from screen 3 of the diagnostic mode I

discovered

Quote
that the fin tip temperature in the compartment was 37 degrees

while

Quote
the service/repair manual said that fin tip temperatures were

supposed

Quote
to be in the 18 to 25 degree range. I went outside and checked the > back side of the refrigerator and both the cooling unit and the > abosorber coils were at ambient temperature indicating that no

cooling

Quote
was taking place. Within an hour or so, without my doing anything,

the

Quote
refrigerator started cooling again and the fin tip temperature

dropped

Quote
to 29 degrees and there it stayed the remainder of the day and

night

Quote
(it never did get down to the 18-25 degrees that is considered > "normal"). This caused the compartment temperature to drop some---

but

Quote
only down to around 40.6 degrees.
 >

> Overnight, last night, the fin temperature, and therefore the > compartment temperature, started dropping. Fin temperature finally > reached 23 degrees and compartment temperature reached 37

degrees. I

Quote
have monitored these temperatures along with the outside

temperatures

Quote
on an hourly basis since 4:00 am this morning and the fin

temperature

Quote
has not varied from 23 degrees and the compartment temperature has > maintained a steady 37 degrees, even though the outside

temperatures

Quote
have increased from 74 degrees to 94 degrees. This tells me that > increased outside temperatures DO NOT have an adverse effect on fin > temperature and comparment temperature if everything is working > properly. So my conclusion about the first two days of this

experience

Quote
is incorrect.
 >

> I have also monitored screens 4 and 5 of the diagnostic mode of

the

Quote
refrigerator and there have been no fault codes registered on

either

Quote
of these screens. I never got the dreaded "no co" message, nor did

the

Quote
reefer ever enter the Backup Operating System (BOS). Therefore, > diagnostics indicate that everything is normal, but monitored > temperatures indicate otherwise.
 >

> Brian Davis

> 2005 42' Intrigue LE Ovation Triple Slide > > Coach #11901
 >
 >
 >

> Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls.
 Great rates starting at 1�/min.
 >

Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and
30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.

Re: Norcold 1200LRIM Refrigerator

Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 24030
Larry,

This is Brian not Lyle but I can tell you how to put the fridge in diagnostic mode: You press the "Set Temp" and "Mode" buttons simultaneously and hold them for about two or three seconds. There are 10 diagnostic screens numbered, obviously from 1 to 0. In order to be able to interpret them, you have to have the Norcold Service/Repair Manual. The one I have been paying attention to in this current inquiry is screen #3 which gives you the "fin temperature". You cycle through the ten screens by pushing the "Mode" button which will move you to the next screen.
The Norcold Service/Repair Manual is on the Norcold site at www.norcold.com/cda but you can't download it without a password that tells the site you are a Norcold service center. You can also download it from www.bryantrv.com, which is where I got it. The only problem with the .pdf document from bryantrv.com is that it is a scanned image and while the quality is excellent, you can't search the text for a particular term or phrase.
I have considered going to the Norcold site and lying and applying for a password by telling them I'm a technician, but haven't done it yet. Given their attitude on the telephone, I wouldn't feel a whole lot of guilt doing it.

Brian Davis
Coach #11901

Re: Norcold 1200LRIM Refrigerator

Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 24038
Thanks Brian! Sorry for the name confusion. I don't think you would be lying about being a technician. You do work on MHs don't you? I'll have to check out the PDF file. I don't have problems now (bang on wood) but I like to be prepared just in case. Thanks again.

Larry

Quote from: Brian & Gwen Davis\[br\
] >

Larry,

This is Brian not Lyle but I can tell you how to put the fridge in
diagnostic mode: You press the "Set Temp" and "Mode" buttons simultaneously and hold them for about two or three seconds. There are 10 diagnostic screens numbered, obviously from 1 to 0. In order to be able to interpret them, you have to have the Norcold Service/Repair Manual. The one I have been paying attention to in this current inquiry is screen #3 which gives you the "fin temperature". You cycle through the ten screens by pushing the "Mode" button which will move you to the next screen.

Quote
>

The Norcold Service/Repair Manual is on the Norcold site at

www.norcold.com/cda but you can't download it without a password that tells the site you are a Norcold service center. You can also download it from www.bryantrv.com, which is where I got it. The only problem with the .pdf document from bryantrv.com is that it is a scanned image and while the quality is excellent, you can't search the text for a particular term or phrase.

Quote
>

I have considered going to the Norcold site and lying and applying
for a password by telling them I'm a technician, but haven't done it yet. Given their attitude on the telephone, I wouldn't feel a whole lot of guilt doing it.

Quote
Brian Davis
Coach #11901

Larry Feather
wrote: Lyle

Quote
>

Can you please share with us how to put the fridge in diagnostic > mode? Thanks.

Larry, 2003 Allure #30856

[quote author=Brian & Gwen Davis

>

> Lyle,
 >

> Thanks so much for your reply. As it so happens, I just got off

of

Quote
the telephone with Norcold and, as you said, they were absolutely

no

Quote
help whatsoever. In fact, I would say that they were somewhat > offended that I had as much knowledge and empirical data as I did.
 They were also offended that I knew how to place the refrigerator > into the diagnostic mode and had the audacity to read information > from the various diagnostic screens therein.
 >

> I haven't had a problem with the freezer compartment. It has > maintained a very steady 0 degrees. All of my problems have been > with rising temperatures in the refrigerator portion which have

been

Quote
simultaneously accompanied by a precipitous rise in the "fin > temperature" as shown in diagnostic screen 3. In the space of an

hour

Quote
the "fin temperature" will rise from 23 degrees to as high as 37 > degrees. This rise in "fin temperature" has resulted in increases

of

Quote
anywhere from 4 to 10 degrees in the refrigerator portion of the > reefer.
 >

> From your message, I have deduced that the culprit for all of my > problems is the defrost cycle that you mentioned. Having tracked > everything now for six days, I noticed the pattern that the big, > quick jumps in temperature were occurring just about every two > days!! You're right, it's very aggravating. In the 100+ degree

days,

Quote
it takes about 12 hours for the refrigerator to recover from this > defrost cycle. I just don't understand why so many manufacturers

of

Quote
motorhome related equipment try and save us from ourselves. If I

want

Quote
the damned thing defrosted, let me defrost it manually just like

I've

Quote
always done for years!!! > >

> Equally aggravating is the fact that when talking to Norcold

they

Quote
briefly volunteered that there was a defrost cycle, but later in

the

Quote
conversation when I specifically mentioned that this problem was > occurring almost every two days to the hour, they never re-

mentioned

Quote
the defrost cycle to tell me that a two day interval was

associated

Quote
with that defrost cycle.
 >

> The defrost cycle certainly explains why the reefer begins to

cool

Quote
again after a while with no "urging" on my part. Thanks for this > explanation and it puts me somewhat at ease.
 >

> Norcold assigned me an "Incident Number" and I already have an > appointment at a Norcold Service Center for next Monday, so I'll

let

Quote
them run some tests, but I'm sure you have answered my quandry.
 >

> Again my thanks,
 >

> Brian Davis
 > Coach #11901
 >
 >
 >

> Lyle Wetherholt
 wrote:

[quote author=Brian & Gwen Davis
 >]
> Brian,

> I also have been some diagnostics on my Norcold. Here are a

few

Quote
ideas

> that might help you. First, if youl have an ice maker in the

left

Quote
freezer comlpartment you will have to turn it off to get any > accurate

> readings. Consider; if you are tapped into outside water and

the

Quote
hose

> is laying in the sun the water temp inside could be well over

120

Quote
degrees. So, each time your ice maker dumps it injects very

hot

Quote
water

> into the freezer compartment. Also, just before dumping the

ice

Quote
maker

> heats the cube cups so they will discharge. More heat into the > refer.

> Another thought--there is a cup in the outside compartment that > > collects water from the defrost cycle. Keep the discharge hose > > submerged in water to prevent hot air from going up the tube

into

Quote
the

> freezer. Lastly, your Norcold has a defrost cycle that is very > > aggravating. It heats the cooling fins to melt frost build up.
 > Sounds ok but the fact is it cycles much too often. On a 100+ > degree

> day the refer will have a hard time recovering from this cycle > which

> seems to be every two days or so. I have tried talking to

Norcold

Quote
but

> they are not very helpful. It would be nice if we could turn

the

Quote
defrost cycle off and only use it when needed. A further

thought.

Quote
Where is your refer set. If you leave it on 9 it will run all

the

Quote
time and the outside box will be too high to allow the

condensation

Quote
cycle to work effectively. A small 12vdc computer fan

installed in

Quote
that compartment may increase air flow a bit and thus allow > > condensation to occur. Just some thoughts for you. I would > welcome

> comments from other forum members to see what they think about > these

> points.

> Lyle Wetherholt
 > 04 Intrigue 11740
 > >

> > I have been having the following problem with my Norcold

1200LRIM

Quote
refrigerator. Does anyone have any idea what is the root cause

and

Quote
what can be done? Like most problems this one seems to be > intermittent!
 > >

> > For two days I monitored the refrigerator's performance.

During

Quote
these two days, the outside, ambient temperatures were > approximately

> 105 degrees. The first day the temperature in the refrigerator > > compartment rose to approximately 41 degrees. I took this to be

an

Quote
expected reaction to the extremely hot outside temperatures.

Then

Quote
during the evening of the first day, I noticed the compartment > > temperature jumped in just a few minutes from 41 degrees to 46 > > degrees. Overnight, the compartment temperature only dropped

to 41

Quote
degrees, while outside temperature dropped to low 90s. So, on

the

Quote
second day, I decided to take preventative action. I removed the > > outside cover on the refrigerator access, placed a ladder

there,

Quote
put a

> fan on the ladder blowing at full speed into the back of the > > refrigerator compartment and rigged up a shade-producing

covering

Quote
over

> the access opening. This caused a very slight improvement but

only

Quote
kept the compartment temperature from rising above 41 degrees.
 > >

> > The outside temperatures declined significantly following the > second

> day and the compartment temperature started dropping and with > outside

> temperatures of low to mid 80s and nighttime temperatures of > around 70

> degrees, I chalked all of the high temperatures to just not

being

Quote
able

> to cope with the high outside temperatures.
 > >

> > Then, all of a sudden, I noticed that the compartment

temperature

Quote
rose to 41 degrees. So, I decided to place the refrigerator in > > diagnostic mode and from screen 3 of the diagnostic mode I > discovered

> that the fin tip temperature in the compartment was 37 degrees > while

> the service/repair manual said that fin tip temperatures were > supposed

> to be in the 18 to 25 degree range. I went outside and checked

the

Quote
back side of the refrigerator and both the cooling unit and the > > abosorber coils were at ambient temperature indicating that no > cooling

> was taking place. Within an hour or so, without my doing

anything,

Quote
the

> refrigerator started cooling again and the fin tip temperature > dropped

> to 29 degrees and there it stayed the remainder of the day and > night

> (it never did get down to the 18-25 degrees that is considered > > "normal"). This caused the compartment temperature to drop some-

--

Quote
but

> only down to around 40.6 degrees.
 > >

> > Overnight, last night, the fin temperature, and therefore the > > compartment temperature, started dropping. Fin temperature

finally

Quote
reached 23 degrees and compartment temperature reached 37 > degrees. I

> have monitored these temperatures along with the outside > temperatures

> on an hourly basis since 4:00 am this morning and the fin > temperature

> has not varied from 23 degrees and the compartment temperature

has

Quote
maintained a steady 37 degrees, even though the outside > temperatures

> have increased from 74 degrees to 94 degrees. This tells me that > > increased outside temperatures DO NOT have an adverse effect on

fin

Quote
temperature and comparment temperature if everything is working > > properly. So my conclusion about the first two days of this > experience

> is incorrect.
 > >

> > I have also monitored screens 4 and 5 of the diagnostic mode

of

Quote
the

> refrigerator and there have been no fault codes registered on > either

> of these screens. I never got the dreaded "no co" message, nor

did

Quote
the

> reefer ever enter the Backup Operating System (BOS). Therefore, > > diagnostics indicate that everything is normal, but monitored > > temperatures indicate otherwise.
 > >

> > Brian Davis

> > 2005 42' Intrigue LE Ovation Triple Slide > > > Coach #11901
 > >
 > >
 > >

> > Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone

calls.

Quote
Great rates starting at 1�/min.
 > >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >

> Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US

(and

Re: Norcold 1200LRIM Refrigerator

Reply #15 –
Yahoo Message Number: 24058
Quote from: Larry Feather"
r />]
Brian, Larry,

I have also been lead to believe the following: Attached to the center fin is a thermistor that is just clipped to this fin. By moving this item to a more left fin (which is warmer) will help to reduce refer temp and shorten the defrost cycle. I think this thermistor turns off the defrost when it detects about 42 degrees.
Now don't take this to the bank but I believe this is true. When I ask Norcold all they would say is "we don't recommend moving the thermistor." However, they used to put a very short wire on this device so it could not be moved but now they have a long wire so you can experiment and move it where you want. Just pull it off, carefully, with a pair of needle nose and push it on the fin of your choice. Hope this helps. If anyone has other opinion please post so we can all learn.

Lyle Wetherholt
04 Intrigue 11740

Thanks Brian! Sorry for the name confusion. I don't think you would

Re: Norcold 1200LRIM Refrigerator

Reply #16 –
Yahoo Message Number: 24060
Lyle,

Yes, the CC tech reps suggested that I might want to move the thermistor more toward the center of the row of fins. Norcold initially attaches the thermistor to the second fin from the right. At this point, I have not moved the thermistor because I haven't wanted to change too many things at once. Now that I think I have a handle on what's going on, that may be the next move.

Brian

Coach #11901



Brian, Larry,

Re: Norcold 1200LRIM Refrigerator

Reply #17 –
Yahoo Message Number: 24062
All,

I have experience with thermistors. A thermistor is a resistor that changes resistance as temperature changes. At any given temperature a thermistor should measure the same amount of resistance as the next thermistor of the same variety. All I have worked with to date are not accurate, sometimes varying 20 percent from one to the next, brand new out-of-the-box. I do not have a Norcold refer, yet IMHO the empirical method of moving the thermistor from one fin to the next is valid because you are compensating for the properties of the thermistor.

Dean 95 Magna 38' #5233
Part-time meanderthal
'95 Magna 5233 - Luna

Re: Pardon my ignorance, but...

Reply #18 –
Yahoo Message Number: 24070
I have used an autoformer for four years now and it works great. We are fulltimers and one hot day our power monitor cut out when the voltage dropped in the park we were in and the temps went up to 103 inside where our precious dog was. We bought one right away and have never had a low cutout since. Truely a "lifesaver". We have never had a CG question it's use.

Allen, Virginia and Pepper (the chihuahua)

Re: Norcold 1200LRIM Refrigerator

Reply #19 –
Yahoo Message Number: 24090
Quote from: Brian & Gwen Davis
r />]
Brian,

You may have just revealed some of your problem. To my knowledge Norcold places the thermistor on the middle fin----not 2nd from right That is the coldest spot.
Try moving it.

Lyle Wetherholt
04 Intrigue 11740

Quote
Lyle,

Yes, the CC tech reps suggested that I might want to move the
thermistor more toward the center of the row of fins. Norcold initially attaches the thermistor to the second fin from the right. At this point, I have not moved the thermistor because I haven't wanted to change too many things at once. Now that I think I have a handle on what's going on, that may be the next move.

Re: Norcold 1200LRIM Refrigerator

Reply #20 –
Yahoo Message Number: 24091
Lyle,

You are partially correct. The latest Norcold repair/service manual states that the thermistor is attached to the twentieth fin from the right in the refrigerator compartment in units with serial numbers below 832171. For units above 832171, Norcold installs the thermistor on the second fin from the right. My serial number is 1400214. There is, however, a generous supply of wire and the thermistor could easily be moved farther to the left---even past the middle if desired. As I said, I have not done this yet as I'm waiting to see what diagnosis the Norcold service center comes up with at my appointment on Monday.
By the way, the link to a service manual on the CC-owners yahoo website is NOT a link to the current service/repair manual. I believe it is to an older version of the service/repair manual dealing with those units with serial numbers below 832171. If you want to see the current service/repair manual, go the www.bryantrv.com website. As I said in a previous email, the only thing wrong with the manual at the Bryant RV website is that you cannot search the manual for specific words or phrases.

Maybe next week I'll be trying to move the thermistor to the left!!

Brian

Coach #11901

Re: Norcold 1200LRIM Refrigerator

Reply #21 –
Yahoo Message Number: 24093
Brian,

If the scanned image version is not huge then an Optical Character Recognizer program should be able to scan the images and convert it to ASCII text. Today the are pretty good and feeding it into Word with a little spell checking the results should be searchable. If you don't have one a Google search should come up with one.

Don Seager

2004 Allure 31046