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Radiator Fan and Dust Storms

Yahoo Message Number: 2058
I had my Allure 2002 (#30690) in at Junction City June 6 & 7th. One item addressed was radiator fan -- more about the other items on a future post. Toured factory again. Saw 2003's. Took photos which I will post later.

They agreed that the fan was running at full speed all the time.
(Big dust storm pulling out of a RV park a few days earlier with cold engine and no air conditioning on). They check all three switches (AC, radiator temp, and air turbo(?)) and found okay. Friday they found a "wiring error" which they "corrected". Unfortunately the engine ran hot the rest of the trip -- 218 to 224 back to California. Boy were things quiet and not dusty. Am sure that the fan never got up to speed that it was suppose to.

Most intersting is that the knocking that I hear 5 to 10 seconds after I start my rig, no longer occurred after they made the change.
Uneducated theory is that since the fan was running wide open before, the pump had no back pressure and was knocking. Not sure about the "wiring error" as I don't recall the knocking when I first took delivery.

Never take delivery from service on a Friday. No one to talk to over the weekend, except Cummins at Saturday after which I decided to continue home.

Will be calling them on Monday and deciding if I take to Cummins or another repair place in Sacramento.

Will keep you all posted.
Herb

CC Forum Moderator

p.s. I deleted the message and file about credit cards.

Re: Radiator Fan and Dust Storms

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 2063
Hi Herg,

I believe the fan and it's Dunfoss controller are a CC responsibility. Consider looking at the electrical schematics and the foldout #S0699 to famaliarize yourself with the mechanization, the Danfoss controller had a recall last year for not providing a higher than windmill rpm when the a/c was commanded, sensors and wiring are very important for your problem, if the 6 pin connector to the controller is removed for example, the fan runs at full rpm giving a 10 deg f lower engine temperature temperature, after reconnected the engine cycles between 184 and 204 deg f for my engine. The only accurate temperature measurement is provide by a Silverleaf product.
Good Luck,
Fred Kovol

--- herbstrandberg herb@...> wrote:

Quote
I had my Allure 2002 (#30690) in at Junction City > June 6 & 7th. One

item addressed was radiator fan -- more about the > other items on a

future post. Toured factory again. Saw 2003's.
Took photos which I
will post later.

They agreed that the fan was running at full speed > all the time.

(Big dust storm pulling out of a RV park a few days > earlier with cold

engine and no air conditioning on). They check all > three switches

(AC, radiator temp, and air turbo(?)) and found > okay. Friday they

found a "wiring error" which they "corrected".
Unfortunately the

engine ran hot the rest of the trip -- 218 to 224 > back to

California. Boy were things quiet and not dusty.
Am sure that the

fan never got up to speed that it was suppose to.

Most intersting is that the knocking that I hear 5 > to 10 seconds

after I start my rig, no longer occurred after they > made the change.

Uneducated theory is that since the fan was running > wide open before,

the pump had no back pressure and was knocking. Not > sure about

the "wiring error" as I don't recall the knocking > when I first took
delivery.

Never take delivery from service on a Friday. No > one to talk to over

the weekend, except Cummins at Saturday after which > I decided to
continue home.

Will be calling them on Monday and deciding if I > take to Cummins or

another repair place in Sacramento.

Will keep you all posted.

Herb

CC Forum Moderator

p.s. I deleted the message and file about credit > cards.
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

Re: Radiator Fan and Dust Storms

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 2070
(Preamble: CC last Friday replaced some of the components and reprogrammed the fan controller. Fan no longer runs at full speed, but temp gauge now showed that the engine was over the 212 degree engine max -- appeared to modulate between 216 and 228 degrees. No engine check lights however.)

Followed CC recommendation and took coach to Cummins to check real engine temperature. They connected a PC running Insite to monitor engine operation. They found that my CC water temp gauge ran about 20-25 degrees higher than the official temp reported by engine -- it never got over 201 degrees. Cummins was pleased. I am relieved. CC sending new temp gauge for dash. And I have a very quiet engine and NO dust storms.

It is good to know that if the fan controller is disconnected (6 pin, 2 pin and yellow and red wires unplugged from relay -- another member reported that just removing the 6 pin connector near rear lower corner of radiator) the fan runs at full speed.
Taking coach to Allison tomorrow for 5000 mile tranny oil and filter change. After first change, subsequent changes are much farther apart.

Had CC do 6000 mile chassis torquing of all bolts.

Found the above two items buried in the maint docs.

Herb

CC Allure 2002 # 30690

Re: Radiator Fan and Dust Storms

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 2071
Herb

Is there any kind of service bulletin CC or Cummins has on this problem that you know of? Seems to have been a long time problem spanding a number of model years. I am about to take delivery of a 2000 CC Allure #30511 the end of this week and I would like to check for the problem before I leave LazyDays lot. How would I check for the problem you described? From some of the previous posts on this subject, it seems that I could listen for the fan speed change when turning the dash A/C on. My understanding is that the fan speed should increase as soon as it is turned on. If there is no change and the fan seems to already be running at a high speed, this may indicate the same problem you had. Not sure about these assumptions. Any ideas or comments appreciated.

Jim Hughes

Jacksonville, FL

Re: Radiator Fan and Dust Storms

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 2076
Hi Herb

We have a 1999 Allure we call Desert Storm. I would suggest that you drive the unit to the nearest dirt road or lot. This is the quickest and surest check on fan speed. We wound up fabricating a baffle to direct the fan air horizontally. Good luck.

Tom & Joyce Newman Allure 30288

Re: Radiator Fan and Dust Storms

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 2078
Jim:

I've just gone through what you are about to go through..
In Feb. I bought # 30580, 2000 36' Allure. In 2 weeks we have an appt at CC in JC to have several items taken care of.
Create a copy of the Model #'s and Serial #'s of all items listed in your coach's medicine cabinet. You'll need them whenever you call CC or the Mfg. I made a digital pix, then made a copy via the PC as someone suggested from the CC group........the group is a great source of info to all of us.
Warranty Bulletin # WB 01-10 : Electric Fan Control: regulates the speed of engine cooling. This info is via CC / JC Chassis Dept. They have been very helpful.
This may be the source / associated with the "Desert Storm" owners have been complaining about.
My Electric Fan Control is to be replaced.by CC.
I have more info. to share, but grandkids are here and in the pool. If you have a FAX that may also be useful......
When they're sleeping, I'll have more info. which you may be interested in and will post it for the group........Don

Re: Radiator Fan and Dust Storms

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 2079
Hi Don, My Intrigue may have the same problem. Will be at the class reunion in July so plan to put that as number 1 on my fixit list.

Looking forward to your progress report.

David and Karen,
2000 Intrigue 11062

Re: Radiator Fan and Dust Storms

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 2080
Don

Look forward to seeing what you have. I(f you have a copy of the WB, maybe you could upload to file area so everyone could see it. I will look for it early in the morning at my office having my first cup of coffee. IF I do not see it , I may have a chance to call CC and have them FAX me a copy and I will upload it to the files.
I pick up my coach this weekend. Going down Friday and check it over to make sure everything is completed before I sign any delivery papers. Then I will spend the night in it to check it out further and give them a punch list of any further problem to take care of on Saturday. Should be only minor gripes. Already identified the major ones. Except, the fan control problem. Since it is a warranty issue, maybe I can get that checked out as well.

Thanks

Jim Hughes

2000 Allure #30511

Re: Radiator Fan and Dust Storms

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 2081
Jim:

I do not have a WB copy on the EFC. The info. was given to me by Kevin ( Chassis Dept ) at CC / Junction City.
Kevin can be reached at ( 800 ) 452 - 8015 ; X 286 ; Other JC CHASSIS Dept cust. svc. reps are :
David King at X 283 " " " " :
Jorie ( ? ) at X 393
CUMMINS, USA : (800 ) 343 - 7357 :
Recall # 30111-A / Safety Campaign # 0111 :Replace Wabco Air Compressor Involves engines # 45878623 to # 46066483 Is source of air for BRAKES, etc. I was told.
This is to be done at a Cummins Service Facility Just saw a recall notice at Monaco for this Wabco compressor in a RV mag.
Cummins rep also informed me that another bulletin is about to be released on the OIL PRESSURE SENSOR.
It sends oil pres. info to the engine's Electronic Control Module.
Some Cummins owners engines have conked out while driving ! I'm having mine checked while they replace my compressor.
Any recall # is via my phone notes so need to be confirmed. Having both a recall # and item name helps to identify it by the reps.
I would suggest that you rely on your own searches to find out whats going on. CC does an excellent job, but, realistically, can't be totally expected to keep each of us abreast of their component mfgs. However, each mfg. knows better whats going on in their house.
More info to follow......The BBQ is calling to feed the family.....Don

Re: Radiator Fan and Dust Storms

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 2082
Don

Thanks....good info. I am going to call first thing this morning and see if I can get them to FAX me a copy of the Bulletin. I will post it in the file section to share with everyone. It would be great if everyone who has obtained copies of any service Bulletins upload a copy to the files section. That way we create a small reference library for everyone to use.
Jim

2000 Allure #30511

Re: Radiator Fan and Dust Storms

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 2083
ditto

In our case it appears the original owner may not have returned those little warranty cards that come with new coaches.

Consequently when Cummins (or any other) supplier attempts to notify owners of changes or recalls there is no address to which they can send the information in their data base.

CC (and probably all the other MH manufacturers) do not follow recalls on non CC manufactured parts all of the time, so there is always the possibility that there is an un recorded recall out there.

We discovered the Air compressor recall by chance. Had specifically asked CC if there were any recalls on our coach while we were at their facility in JC and were told there was nothing "listed in the file".

However, while there we took the coach over to Coburg to have a base line service at Cummins Northwest (Good people) and they advised us of the recall when checking their data base and fixed the problem FOC and very quickly.

I do not fault CC. They can't be expected to follow every item womb to tomb.
"New coach" owners must be diligent about filling in the registration cards (and remember to have appropriate forwarding addresses). Buyers in the "Gently used" market must be wary of non registered components.

Fortunately in this era we have the Internet and lots of knowledgeable people willing to share information.

Thanks.

David and Karen,
2000 Intrigue 11062

Re: Radiator Fan and Dust Storms

Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 2087
Could you post a photo on this site to show us how the baffle appears after installation?

Thanks
Ray

2000 Intrigue 11040

Re: Radiator Fan and Dust Storms

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 2088
I thought about doing something like this but was worried that if I had an engine problem, my altering the factory design might void the warranty. I''ve heard of that happening.

Radiator Fan and Dust Storms

Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 2092
Hi Ray

I can barely type and you want attached photos. Maybe someday, but for today let me try and draw you a picture.
Colton Truck in CA, recommended by CC as one of the best to work on Desert Storm, this is after three trips to Beaudry in Tucson, is the one who created the fix. They used a new truck mud flap. They attached it using 4 sheet metal screws with flat washers to a metal strip under the radiator housing. They kept it horizontal and attached it again to metal that run under the engine, about at the middle of the engine.
Before they did this, Colton Truck worked with CC (David King) to solve the dust problem. David had personally worked on my coach re this problem at the CC meet in Tucson this past Jan. David was helping me resolve this with Beaudry, with no luck. CT & CC determined that everything was working as designed (I'ts hard to believe this since I've spoken to other 99 Allure owners who say they don't have this problem or maybe they've never had their unit on dirt. I forgot to ask). So CT came up with the baffle idea. I spoke directly to David about this idea before I gave the OK. He said they had heard of others doing similar, but the CC design people have stated that it may create cavitation in the engine compartment. I don't see this as a big problem with the design CT came up with. Now, we haven't done a lot of traveling since the baffle was installed, so we'll have to see. But I have been on dirt and it improved the dust problem tremendously. I'm going into Cummins in Colton, CA, on the 23rd of this month for an annual service and we shall see what they say about the fix.
PS:I found out at the Tucson meet, that the fan assembly is designed by CC and Cummins will not work on the dust problem.

We'll be at the JC meet at the end of July. Bring your camera.

Best of luck, and Happy Fathers Day.

Tom & Joyce, 99 Allure 30288

Re: Radiator Fan and Dust Storms

Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 2093
"He said they had heard of others doing similar, but the CC design people have stated that it may create cavitation in the engine compartment. "
This is the same reason CC gave me about 2 years ago, the cavitation argument. I still feel the best fix would be to correct, in my mind, a design fault of not fully shrouding the fan. The reason for the fan is to draw air through the radiator coils and not to stir up the air around the engine and the ground.

Sincerely

George W Becker

gwb36@... 1999 Country Coach Intrigue #10700

Re: Radiator Fan and Dust Storms

Reply #15 –
Yahoo Message Number: 2095
I am now absolutely please with the work CC did on my CC Allure 2002 radiator fan.
1. It runs a lot quieter. My neighbor at home has even commented that the "engine" is quieter".

2. It no longer chatters (presume hydraulic pump now has some back pressure) 5-10 seconds after starting the engine.

3. Temps have been verified by Cummins and new Silverleaf Engine Monitor that I purchased to be in 190-199 range, except on stiff upgrade it goes to 202. (Dash gauge believe to be bad or reading a hotter part of the engine. CC sending a new gauge.)
4. Have not see any dust storm. I still feel pretty bad about the
last pre-fix campground I pulled out of at 9:00 in the morning. Cold engine, no A/C, and dust was flying everywhere.

I no longer see a need for baffles.
The fan's electronic control module can be easily remove and sent to CC for checking and re-programming. During that time the fan will run at full speed without the control module. Not sure what re- programming they did. They also said it was miswired, but were not specific. They also had first replaced several switches, but said that did not fix the problem. Not sure what exactly to believe, but I believe the dust storms are gone.
BTW, somewhat unrelated, the best way I have found to determine what air compressor noise is like, is to bleed air from the three tanks (like you should do every month), start engine, listen. When guages get up to 120psi, and I heard a pssss purge, the compressor noise stopped. This compressor is recalled -- work scheduled 6/23.

Herb

CC Forum Moderator
CC Allure 2002 #30960