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Change in CC mgt attitude?

Yahoo Message Number: 25865
As a long time CC owner, I am distressed to read on this board of severe problems some people are having with some of the new coaches, especially Doris with the Inspire, and an apparent lack of attention being given to these problems by CC. This is not the attitude I have experienced over the years as I have found fairness in all my dealings with CC. Surely someone in CC management is aware of Doris horrendous experience and the fact that it is being widely discussed among the owners.
Some comments have been made that once the warranty is over CC wants nothing to do with the coach. My experience has been contrary to this as they took care of me with some serious problems after warranty, most notably an electrolysis problem on both slides and skid plate protection on my engine. They worked with me long after warranty expired to solve the " desert storm problem."
Is it possible things changed drastically after Bob Lee's departure, both in customer service and initial quality of coaches coming off the line? I hope not as CC has had a fine reputation up to now. One thing I did that I'm sure helped was to attend as many CCI rallies as I could and develop some rapport with CC factory personnel. Doug Rutherford is one fine guy who will go the extra mile for you. In the early days Jim Cooley was my primary contact with CC and gave outstanding service. Bob Lee was well aware that the best marketing people he had were people like Doug and Jim in the service end of the business. Maybe the current management doesn't know this?

Food for thought.

Walt Rothermel

03Allure30811 ( still for sale )

Re: Change in CC mgt attitude?

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 25867
Walt, I had a 99 Allure and now a 2005 Allure. My experiences with Country Coach are similiar to yours.
They have been helpful and fair in my dealings with them, both in warranty and out of warranty. In fact, far better than one would expect on most occassion.

Biggest issue is the Pioneer Nav system "boat anchor" that came on the coach. CC has actually done all they can helping me with Pioneer, but there just seems to be no solution using the current Pioneer software and maps programs.

Good Luck selling your unit. I remember you buying it in Ft. Benning I believe it was.

Best Regards

Ray and Rue
05 Allure 31176

Re: Change in CC mgt attitude?

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 25868
Very good, your point is well taken. I had a long conversation with Mr. Cooley one time, and his point was "some people just want to be unhappy" and I am sure that is true. I 'am concerned also, and I think Doris has sure had her share of problems.

Re: Change in CC mgt attitude?

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 25870
Walt:

Very interesting post!

I had contact with a CC liaison directly during this last repair. He was at McMahon's newest service facility when my coach came in for its current problems. Since the coach was then almost 2 months old (to us), had been in repair shops all this time and had exterior damage, warping from towing with resultant slide damage and bathroom door that swung both ways and a chronic dead battery problem he needed a detailed explanation of why this damage occurred before he'd authorize the cosmetic warranty work.
In a follow up conversation, I was trying to find out why McMahon had the coach so long, why they won't tell us specifically what they have done to it, whether they diagnosed and fixed the 'dead battery' problem or did they just charge the battery again as the last repair shop did and tell us it is fixed. It came out in the conversation that he, the CC service liaison, saw my story on this site, but that he's just an employee who works for CC and can do nothing to help me except what's within his scope of employment. Although this was a telephone conversation, I could sense he was biting his tongue.....I'd love to know what was really on his mind
Both he and McMahon have been artful dodgers on this dead battery issue for a month now and we had decided to pick the coach up today whether they completed the warranty work or not. We told McMahon this yesterday. We were hoping to take it out and try it this weekend, you know....sleep in it, maybe turn the TV on.....touch buttons and knobs, imagine what I'd put in the cupboards, how we'd organize the bays.........see if we could get excited about owning it.
The very first call we received this morning was from McMahon stating that the battery was very low today and they cannot understand why it had discharged, the coach had not been plugged in for a couple days, but everything was off so it should not have discharged so much. (We've been telling them this for a month now and fixing this was high on our list. We even sent a string we found here regarding chronic dead battery fix suggestions.). McMahon is stating they need to check with the CC rep for authorization and in the next sentence have told us they were given a blank authorization to do whatever warranty work needed to be done. Bottom line is they don't want to release the coach to us today. They can't find the paperwork stating what all they have done to it and they don't know when it will be ready..
In the past, I have without success tried leaving messages for management, so I can be sure they are aware of my problem. I mentioned this to my customer care liaison...and he said management is very aware of this problem. I was told after each repair, the coach is fixed....period.
Well, it's not, is it. Its been 3 months now since we anxiously awaited delivery of our new coach, tow car loaded with supplies, bags packed and ready to depart on our new retirement life. I think this is aptly called a 'failure to launch'. .

Doris

2006 Un Inspired and Un Launched Inspire 360

Re: Change in CC mgt attitude?

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 25871
The statement Mr. Cooley made "some people just want to be unhappy" does not sound like a good management statement...period. It portrays a bad attitude about customer relations that can become contagious amongst management and customer relations personnel. It can be a company's downfall. The statement is really a cop out, when management fails to grasp the problem or will not grasp the problem.
It may explain why we have been so frustrated for almost 3 months now and why management failed to return our calls..
I've owned my own very successful business for over 30 years and even if I thought that about a particularly problematic customer, I would never, ever make that statement to anyone! Its a sloppy attitude.

Doris

Unhappy Inspire Owner

Re: Change in CC mgt attitude?

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 25873
As their stock value continues to fall, partially due to market and partially to management decisions, attitudes and cost saving measures become more important.... Most of the major makers right now are pulling back on anything they can to survive.... I think the stock value is around 4.40 a share..... Unfortunately, people with real problems are not taken care of as they should be, this leads to more headaches and grief for everyone, but sometimes an owner has to do what they have to do.... I never met anyone who said, I am going to buy an expensive Class Motorcoach so I can have problems and sure the maker........

If they have gone beyond reasonable, do what you gotta do.....

Mikee

Re: Change in CC mgt attitude?

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 25878
Well said Walt, I don't think the company has changed but I do think in building entry level coaches they have made some mistakes. But the Inspire buyer is also making a mistake if he thinks he is buying a Magna. What I don't understand is the driver calling the customer to tell them about his problem. Sounds to me like he was trying to cover his butt because of something he did wrong. When we had a coach delivered we asked to see the driver's report but he never called us. That was strange.

Bill G. 2005 Magna #6425.

Re: Change in CC mgt attitude?

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 25880
Bill G:

I am the Inspire owner and never thought I was buying a Magna. To even think this has me concerned that as a Magna owner you might believe that any lesser expensive model is expected to be inferior in every way and that everyone is dying to have what you have..

Secondly, it is apparently too important to you to flaunt that you have a Magna. I did not buy an Inspire because I could not afford to purchase, operate and maintain a Magna.....I bought an Inspire because that is all I needed. We are not ostentatious people, as I mentioned before...we have a very expensive custom car and the attention is gathers is embarrassing to us. We rarely drive it.
I doubt very much there could be a driver error since it was a faulty, blown turbo charger initially that the gasket probably blew due to the intense undistributed heat in the engine compartment . I know you have access to this story from the beginning and I must question your mechanical expertise to believe your statement. Please tell me how this could be driver error? The Allison transmission downshifted well before anticipated, the driver manually downshifted when temp's reached an unsafe level also and yet the coach coolant system was insufficient and the temp's continued to climb way beyojnd Caterpiller's expectations. We experienced the same overheating problem driving on a flat terrain in a 55 mile an hour zone doing less than the legal limit and with a new coach fully unloaded when the transmission failed due to overheating.

Was this driver error also and please tell me where we or a veteran retired truck driver, quite familiar with driving diesel trucks, could have gone wrong?

Your negative inferals demand a reply Bill G. who has a Magna.

Doris

Re: Change in CC mgt attitude?

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 25881
Doris, Don't let Bill G. bother you. He told me I should buy a small cheap motorhome. I had him figured out before you made your post. I started RVing a number of years ago and one of the reasons was because there was no class differences but as you can see times have changed.
John F.

Re: Change in CC mgt attitude?

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 25882
And some people have a damn good reason for being uphappy. I feel for you Doris and second the motion that you lawyer up and file suit to force CC to take this lemon back and reimburse you all the costs plus compensation for the incredible hassle.

I had one National coach, a Sea Breeze, it was a piece of junk.
Just knowing that CC is now owned by National is all I need to dissuade me from owning another CC.

My '98 actually is a pretty good rig, few problems other than those crappy SeGi windows with the faulty (creeping) seals that CC and Segi refused to stand behind. I'm gonna have to spend a few thousand next year replacing more of them.

Anyway, I think you've given CC ample opportunity to make this right. Sue them.

Dan & Ann
Allure #30180

Re: Change in CC mgt attitude?

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 25884
John F:

Yes, I've seen him post before touting his un Magna-namous replies. Actually, spending the night in a Home Depot or friendly Wal Mart parking lot beats a smelly, busy, noisy truck rest stop any day in my books, especially when we are too tired to make it to our luxurious campground.

Doris

Blue Light Special Inspire 360

Re: Change in CC mgt attitude?

Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 25886
John,

My wife and I are proud new owners of a 2004, Allure, 33. 98% of our camping, in the past has been dry camping. We picked up our ''new to us '' unit up in AZ on Labor day , and on the way home we did have hook ups at night , but at 113 degrees crossing Hover dam, we needed them. We just returned from our first major dry camping trip. Even with 2, 8D batteries, the RV uses a lot of 12 volt power, just in stand by mode. We had a 130 watt solar panel that I would set out in the sun, and in 10 days we only had to start the generator 2 times to charge up. We just made a purchase of a 8000 BTU catalytic heater from CW. It does not use power. We would heat up the diesel furnace/ water heater only when we needed hot water and it only took 2 to 3 minutes. I have ordered 2 more solar panels for the roof and will keep one on the ground to station in direct sun when we are docked under trees. For " Dry " camping I would like a propane water heater, but my wife likes long hot showers and when we are hooked up she can have them with the diesel furnace, and not the propane. I can live and work around the few things I do not care for. I am totally happy with our new toy, and I would do it again, I love the length, I like to stay at isolated camp grounds, and at 33 feet, it is perfect for us. Good luck on the Magna, and hope to see you in July at the rally.
John

Allure 04 31060

Re: Change in CC mgt attitude?

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 25894
Doris,

As a former truck driver you must also know that this is not your father's diesel. This coach as well as other SOBs take new driving skills. We also had our Magna over heat going out of California on our way home from the factory but we knew from our instrumentation to do something about it right a way. So we found a spot to pull over, let the engine and transmission cool down and then proceed in a lower gear at a slower speed until we could get somewhere and get the situation corrected. How many times have you said your temp went to 228, you should have stopped long before that. I can be just as critical of my coach as you can but I did not keep running it until everything melted. By the way, I had also been to some rallies where I knew this problem was developing thru out the industry so I had already asked someone what to do if the temp went up. Our coach has also been in the shop many times but CC and Cat took care of everything but we never burned it up, so to speak.
Lazy Days did all the repairs to my satisfaction but I never left the coach there without going back every other day. Telephones do not work on problems like this.
The one criticism I have of the Inspire is that it does not have enough instrumentation for such a complicated motor home and it attracts a lot of first time buyers who have no idea of what they are buying. They just turn on the key and go.
I could care less if you have a fancy car you never drive, We drive our Magna everywhere at 62 mph and get passed all the time by overheating Inspires who think these coaches were built to go any speed at any temperature. And by the way you never have said why the driver called you about the coach. You also have never said you have been to a rally or the factory to address the problems directly with CC. I know I am not being very kind but you were not kind to me either. I drive a Magna because it is a fine coach that meets my needs. If you ever come to a rally you will find that my Magna is the smallest and it only has 3 slides.

Bill G.

Re: Change in CC mgt attitude?

Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 25904
Bill

Very Good! When something is wrong, you need to stop, an address the problem.

Also another former commercial driver.

Bo and Kathy Lee

2000 Magna, 2006 Jeep Unlimited

Re: Change in CC mgt attitude?

Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 25905
I am sorry if my quotation of a call with Mr. Cooley was misunderstood. "some people just want to be unhappy" had nothing to do with management style. I was not well and we were discussing "positive attitude" looking on the "bright side" etc. What had happened was a then approved CC repair shop had really hacked my coach, and had even left it with crap in the toilet. You can imagine I just could not understand why a repair facility would do that. CC later took away their approval. I am very sorry that I used this statement in an attempt to cheer a troubled owner.
I have been dealing with CC since 1998. The fire issue is note worthy. I think we are all following the situation to see just how a unit catches on fire, so that we all can avoid the experience. So please do not take my input and reach conclusion regarding Mr. Cooley's management ability. You are way off base, check with me if you would really like all the details it went way beyond crap.

Re: Change in CC mgt attitude?

Reply #15 –
Yahoo Message Number: 25907
I posted a reply, you are incorrect, the conversation had nothing to do with management, if my prior post does not get to you advise, but since I made the quote you can rest assured he was taking about a management attitude and in fact I probably misused the context of his statement, I was trying to make you feel better, sorry, but Mr. Cooley is not your guy, I am and my wife tells me I have a bad attitude all the time!!

Re: Change in CC mgt attitude?

Reply #16 –
Yahoo Message Number: 25909
Actually, with my somewhat limited knowlege of the total situation, I don't blame CC on the window issue. I also have several that need replacing, but CC shouldn't be accountable for every window out there that 'creeps'. The onnus should and is on SeGi who made the defective windows and refuses to stand by their defective product.
However, they won't even give a break on the price, much less warranty beyond the original period. There was a time when the warranty was extended, but nether SeGi or CC advertised it very openly. It may have even been only CC extending it, I don't know for sure.
Yes, I am a little upset about the windows and our friend McMahon, who missled and deceived me but, I guess I allowed it to happen!

ddtuttle

(aka Billy Byte, trusty hound)
2000 Allure #30443

dishonest repair shops

Reply #17 –
Yahoo Message Number: 25910
I find it impossible to know everything about all the systems in the coach so it would be very easy to deceive the customer. Other than being an RV tech how do we protect ourselves from dealers/repair services that aren't honest? We are at their mercy so many times when something needs fixing.

Fortunately we have been able to take our coach to a great independent repair shop but we won't always be close enough to get there.

Sue

'05, 42' Allure, quad slide, #31254

Re: dishonest repair shops

Reply #18 –
Yahoo Message Number: 25911
There is a salesman at McMahon's with a business card that reads he is in charge of high line sales. In reality, he only works with them at shows and rallys and does not actually hold a position. McMahan allows this deception and even admits to it, yet............. is this honest? No, but, it's business and somehow we need to be aware of practices like this.
There seems to be a large number of honest dealers and service centers out there, lets keep up the job of telling people who they are, and try to patronize them.

ddtuttle

(aka Billy Byte, trusty hound)
2000 Allure #30443

Re: Change in CC mgt attitude?

Reply #19 –
Yahoo Message Number: 25913
You're right. I did buy it at Fort Benning and have really enjoyed it. Someone will get a very good coach at less than half the price of a new one.

Walt Rothermel
03Allure30811

Re: Change in CC mgt attitude?

Reply #20 –
Yahoo Message Number: 25914
Doris, I feel so badly for you----the description of the things you would like to do if you could only get possession of your coach is really poignant , and I doubt I would have been as patient as you have been. It pains me to recommend legal action against a company that has been eminently fair to me, but enough is enough.

Walt Rothermel

03Allure ( still for sale )

Re: Change in CC mgt attitude?

Reply #21 –
Yahoo Message Number: 25916
I sure am glad to see your clarification re Jim Cooley. Based on my past experience with him I couldn't believe he would make such a statement regarding a customer.

Walt Rothermel

Re: Change in CC mgt attitude?

Reply #22 –
Yahoo Message Number: 25917
Bill G:

If you really read my posts you'd know the coach runs hot on the flat, by hot I mean once the engine warms up the engine temp's range is well over 210 and my husband always drives in the slow lane....he's a not in a hurry type of guy..
I realize you are a CC fan and it is difficult to believe that CC could have built a severely flawed vehicle. It happens.
The coach overheats to such an extent in a short period of time that we'd be pulled over to the side of the road every few miles or so and we certainly would have to find another way around grades.
For example, we picked the coach up yesterday from a month long repair shop stay and parked the coach for a few hours while we waited for rush hour traffic to be over before heading home. We live about 45 minutes from the dealer repair shop. By the time we headed for home, it was dark, cool and raining. Because of the deluge, wet roads, etc. our speeds never exceeded 50. We were amazed that under these circumstances the engine coolant temperature gauge ranged from 208 to 218. There was no hill climbing involved. We took pictures of the gauges in motion and also pulled over and took pictures encompassing the traffic conditions and weather. All in all, it took us 2 hours to make a 45 minute drive, late at night in cool weather because we were trying to keep the coach under 220.
The turbo blew at 220 and the veteran retired truck driver (hired by McMahon to deliver the coach to us) was frustrated by his attempts to get the coach cooled down. He was extremely upset when he called us because he had called the dealer first to apprise them of the coach's breakdown, it's overheating problem, the things he had to do along the way to bring the temperature down and when he mentioned manually downshifting.....the dealer became irate and blamed the driver for the breakdown due to his manually downshifting in an attempt to keep temp's from becoming excessive. The dealer argued that these new Allison transmissions are equipped with a computer that does that for you. He too, like you, accused the truck driver of not knowing how to operate a new diesel as you are implying. THE DEALER STATED THAT UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES IS MANUAL SHIFTING TO BE USED. The dealer then proceeded to tell the driver that the expense and coordination of repairs was no longer their problem due to driver error. So, the driver had to call us since the dealer copped out on the issue.
Since the driver was on the hook and the coach was in limbo.....we called Allison and we called Caterpiller to clarify the manual shifting question and whether the driver should be responsible for a blown turbo because he manually downshifted, in lieu of allowing automatic downshifting. The delivery company also contacted them. The delivery company and the truck driver were exonerated.
Now, Bill, if both Allison and Caterpiller are saying there was no driver error, it is a flaw with the coach, why do you feel you know better about my particular Inspire?
If a driver is hired to deliver a coach to us because we are located out of state, why would he not contact us if there is a problem with that delivery, especially since no one else seemed to be indicating they'd follow thru on this?
I truly wanted to take the coach to the factory for service Bill, we even contacted CC about doing this and got the go ahead......but as I have repeated many times in previous posts, the coach has been in the repair shop constantly due to total breakdowns. The second meltdown was on a flat road driving in the slow truck lane at 35 mph in an attempt to keep the temperatures down.
Why did your two previous posts give me the impression that you believe we are ignorant drivers with archaic notions on how to drive the latest technology, especially since this is an entry level coach that is just too high tech for a novice?
Why did your original opinion state I appear to want a Magna? Is it because all I am asking is that the coach be reliable and only a Magna can be counted on for that?
Can you clarify where I gave you the impression we don't know how to drive a CC Inspire 360 with a C9 400/Allison? Do you think this is our first?
I know you are a happy camper with CC and I am happy for you. I truly wish I was too. I'd love to meet everyone at a Rally next year and, taking our new Inspire up to the factory was on the slate for our maiden voyage 3 months ago (this was discussed/planned via Jeff Howe), but the coach has had a failure to launch, it's not a know how failure....not even close.

Doris

Re: Change in CC mgt attitude?

Reply #23 –
Yahoo Message Number: 25918
Exactly. Selling a bunch of defective windows, standing behind them in only a very limited way, and telling everyone one else they have to pay full price to get these bad windows replaced speaks very badly of both CC and Segi.

At bare minimum, they should be offering to sell the replacement windows at cost--profiting off of people who have to replace defective windows that you sold them to begin with, speaks very badly of both companies IMO.

Re: Change in CC mgt attitude?

Reply #24 –
Yahoo Message Number: 25920
Bo and Kathy:

That's very true about stopping to let things cool down, but once in a while there are problems that stopping won't help. If you read my story from the beginning, I think you'll understand.
It is a matter of 10 minutes or so before our coach reaches 'pull over and let it cool down temperatures' whether downshifting automatically or manually.
Please give me your opinion of what those pull over and let it cool down temperatures should be? That sure would help a big dummy like I believe I'm being thought of here..
I think it is pretty difficult for me to accept that the Caterpiller or Allison factory tech's are wrong about the excessive temperatures our coach operates as not being acceptable. Or that the initial turbo charger blow up, fire in the engine compartment, burnt brake lines, burnt air lines, melted wires and sensors are strictly from driver error. Or that the second major (transmission) breakdown due to melted wires and sensors was due to driver error. That was definitely not Caterpiller's opinion and it most certainly was not CC's opinion. CC took full responsibility and stated it is their problem, they've seen it many times before and have a (temporary) fix for it.
So, perhaps my paranoia comes into play here.....why suddenly are some nice folks trying to avert the blame for my coach being out of service and apparently not completely fixable for the past 3 months on driver error?

Doris